MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[KnightSlappy]

They're suggestive, not definite. Heck - I'm nervous and jumpy today, and I'm not playing. I can't imagine what a freshman point guard feels like. Although, being a freshman didn't hurt Veldhouse in his first game, lo those many years ago. Argh.

It didn't help Caleb either.  It was probably his worst rivalry game...

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/basketball/results/2005-06/cm15.htm

Knights lost 73-55

[Erm Schmigget]

KS I agree with HC that those are interesting numbers.  I looked at them for an hour trying to discern what it all meant.  Can Calvin's advantage in experience (p.t. in prior rivalry games) be used in any meaningful way to predict what might happen tomorrow.  Not that I can find.

I don't think my numbers show anything definite (you can't ever pull a statistic like this that ever means anything really), just that Calvin's players have played many more minutes in Rivaly games.  I am sure (although I never played in one) a Calvin/Hope game has a much different feel to it.  Emotions and adrenaline run very high.  If some of the young Hope kids get the "wide eyed" look while playing in their first meaningful minutes, Calvin could take it to them.

FDF.  I looked at those trash numbers for the longest time yesterday, and came to the same conclusion that you have. My little red flag started waving when I saw Hope's numbers went down when they beat Kalamazoo, and Kalamazoos number went up for losing. 

I don't want to speak for DK's formula but, I bet TRASH takes into account HOW a team wins or loses.  Kzoo 'covered' TRASH's spread so in response, "+" for Kzoo.  In turn Hope didn't cover so it gets a "-".  All of the power numbers are relative and add up to zero so for one to go up, someone needs to go down.

I see both of these metrics as fun, but seriously flawed.  For example, the Hope-Kazoo game Wednesday night could have been a blowout if Hope hadn't subbed so liberally, while Kazoo left its starters in.  The TRASH rating system is bereft of any means to account for this scenario.  With a coach like GVW, who appears to value big scoring margins well below simply getting a W, teams like Hope would tend to migrate toward being under-rated using the TRASH metrics.  That's fine if it makes other teams complacent about their chances against Hope    but I doubt any of them think this system is much more than "aptly named".

That said, I still would be interested to see how TRASH ends up ranking the MIAA as compared to the actual standings at season's end.  So... rank on, DK.

GO HOPE!!!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Its very quiet in here less than 30 hours before the big game! Too quiet....

I think the Knight fans are trying to trick you while some of Calvin's resident computer nerds sneak into DeVos and re-wire/re-program the scoreboard so visitor "2-pointers" count as 3 points and "3-pointers" count as 4 points (I am told free throws will still count as one).  Also, Hope will begin each half with 4 team fouls...

Yeah, but at the DeVos everyone will know that, since our scoreboard actually displays team fouls   

[sac]

KS I agree with HC that those are interesting numbers.  I looked at them for an hour trying to discern what it all meant.  Can Calvin's advantage in experience (p.t. in prior rivalry games) be used in any meaningful way to predict what might happen tomorrow.  Not that I can find.

I don't think my numbers show anything definite (you can't ever pull a statistic like this that ever means anything really), just that Calvin's players have played many more minutes in Rivaly games.  I am sure (although I never played in one) a Calvin/Hope game has a much different feel to it.  Emotions and adrenaline run very high.  If some of the young Hope kids get the "wide eyed" look while playing in their first meaningful minutes, Calvin could take it to them.

FDF.  I looked at those trash numbers for the longest time yesterday, and came to the same conclusion that you have. My little red flag started waving when I saw Hope's numbers went down when they beat Kalamazoo, and Kalamazoos number went up for losing. 

I don't want to speak for DK's formula but, I bet TRASH takes into account HOW a team wins or loses.  Kzoo 'covered' TRASH's spread so in response, "+" for Kzoo.  In turn Hope didn't cover so it gets a "-".  All of the power numbers are relative and add up to zero so for one to go up, someone needs to go down.

I see both of these metrics as fun, but seriously flawed.  For example, the Hope-Kazoo game Wednesday night could have been a blowout if Hope hadn't subbed so liberally, while Kazoo left its starters in.  The TRASH rating system is bereft of any means to account for this scenario.  With a coach like GVW, who appears to value big scoring margins well below simply getting a W, teams like Hope would tend to migrate toward being under-rated using the TRASH metrics.  That's fine if it makes other teams complacent about their chances against Hope    but I doubt any of them think this system is much more than "aptly named".

That said, I still would be interested to see how TRASH ends up ranking the MIAA as compared to the actual standings at season's end.  So... rank on, DK.

GO HOPE!!!

The variables in TRASH could also be explained as I think DK pointed out by the relative lack of games.  I think he mentioned it only covered MIAA games.

[HopeConvert]

They're suggestive, not definite. Heck - I'm nervous and jumpy today, and I'm not playing. I can't imagine what a freshman point guard feels like. Although, being a freshman didn't hurt Veldhouse in his first game, lo those many years ago. Argh.

It didn't help Caleb either.  It was probably his worst rivalry game...

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/basketball/results/2005-06/cm15.htm

Knights lost 73-55

I was thinking of this game

http://www.calvin.edu/sports/mens/basketball/results/2005-06/cm22.htm

and the last-second three-pointer he hit. You're right: it was the second RIVALRY game of the year that year.

I remember that first game and thinking Calvin wasn't very good, but saying afterward that I thought that #10 fellow was going to become a heck of a player. I went out on a limb on that one.

[sac]

By the way, not much has been made of this, but there are several ways you can watch the game live Saturday.  From satelite parties, to streaming web, to live on the dish.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/21252

[hope1]

the doors  open at  11.30   saturday they said it during the girls game when  they beat calvin  bad  maybe hope can go 4-0  with after sat game the hope girls jv beat calvin to 

[realist]

I am older, and slower than most, but it just dawned on me that my 401K, and IRA obviously got TRASHED.   
I still think Calvin will win on Hope's floor, but it won't come easy.

[sac]

Someone, somewhere in the last few pages mentioned regional rankings or records.

Here's the current in-region records of the great lakes teams   http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5126.315

[ziggy]

Someone, somewhere in the last few pages mentioned regional rankings or records.

Here's the current in-region records of the great lakes teams   http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=5126.315

As I expected.  Confirms the point I was trying to make about Calvin and Hope.  If they can clean up against the rest of the league, they will both look very nice record-wise.

[GoKnights68]

Does anyone know if the game tomorrow at Hope will be on the CSPN (a college sports channel on premium cable around the country)?  I'm pretty sure it was on there in the last couple of years, but I haven't read or heard anything about it so far.

[realist]

gk68:  Go to the site Sac: posted above.  It will answer all your questions.

[northb]

Its very quiet in here less than 30 hours before the big game! Too quiet....

I think the Knight fans are trying to trick you while some of Calvin's resident computer nerds sneak into DeVos and re-wire/re-program the scoreboard so visitor "2-pointers" count as 3 points and "3-pointers" count as 4 points (I am told free throws will still count as one).  Also, Hope will begin each half with 4 team fouls...

All on JR

[northb]

By the way, not much has been made of this, but there are several ways you can watch the game live Saturday.  From satelite parties, to streaming web, to live on the dish.

http://www.hope.edu/pr/pressreleases/content/view/full/21252

Or here

http://www.calvinhope.com/men/

[SKOT]

This ugly accountant is looking forward to watching this game after the first (and surely not the last) six day work week of tax season. 

I just hope the game stays competitive.  It was so much fun watching the game in Chicago (Lincoln Park) last year.  Throughout the second half, as the game got tighter, both sides of the bar were getting louder and a little more beveraged.  It was so much fun to watch the uneducated locals walk in dumbfounded to the ruckus that was going on!

Here is to getting drinkey with my Hope friends and even some of those miscreant Calvin fans 

I use that adjective meaning the second definition here...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/miscreant