MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

But I think only the most homerist of Hope fans would have believed Hope was the favorite to win the MIAA this year.

The majority of them post here.

At least they post more than one line sentences.

Shucks, I guess you've got us not just in public nudity, but verbosity too.    And if I understand you, Calvin shouldn't be too excited to be on top in the standings, since Hope is rebuilding this year and never expected to contend?

I really think you're reading more into words than are there.  I've never made such a statement that Calvin shouldn't be excited..........and yes I believe all along Hope expected to contend, which is very different from expecting to win.

If you're interpreting the words from the 'circles' post, it does not mean literally "we weren't supposed to win",........it can take on several meanings, probably the one that hits the closest is the fact Hope hasn't hit a last second shot to beat Calvin.  Given the history of this series, I think you could pick out why those don't appear like they're supposed to go in.

[GoKnights68]

Win or lose, "the rivalry" is a happening . . . an intense, packed crowd . . . even good student chants right off the bat:   "This is our house."  "Our house is bigger."  "We fill our house [or something to that effect]."  I have also been impressed by the sportsmanship this year . . . no whining over referee calls.

The two gentlemen wearing the  speedos were very classy as well...

I thought that was pretty funny.  I think a Duke fan did that one year.  I guess those guys got kicked out of the game.

There's always some questionable acts that both teams' student section does, so you can't single out anything.

The players on the court were nothing but class, though, from both teams.  It was nice to see Van Solkema talking to Veldhouse after the game for a while.

[northb]

Homerist?

[KnightSlappy]

Homerist?

How versed in Greek Mythology must one be to be considered a "Homerist"?

[KnightSlappy]

I think if you ask most people who support Hope they realize this is a rebuilding year.  We are young and talented, talented enough to possibly steal the MIAA, which may still happen, you never know.

But I think only the most homerist of Hope fans would have believed Hope was the favorite to win the MIAA this year.

I think the Hope fans need to cut the crap.

I don't know that Hope winning the league would ever be considered a "steal".  Hope was behind Calvin by only 1 point in the pre-season coaches poll with 3 first place votes (2 not including KVS). I don't know that those coaches would consider themselves the "most homerist" [sic] of Hope fans.

I might give you that Hope wasn't "supposed" to win this game but they weren't "supposed" to lose it either.  As ziggy pointed out, many people believed that it would be a close game, which it was.  I give credit to Hope for battling back, but I give equal credit to Calvin for not backing down each time that the place erupted as the lead slipped away.

[wiz]

But I think only the most homerist of Hope fans would have believed Hope was the favorite to win the MIAA this year.

The majority of them post here.

At least they post more than one line sentences.

The Hope superiority comes out again.   

I really don't know what your getting at or how you could even interpret that comment that way.

Me neither.  I'm still trying to figure out all that circle stuff.  Whether life is a triangle, square, rectangle or oval, it doesn't really matter to me.  I just know I don't have to write in circles to proclaim the truth in one simple sentence. 

CALVIN BEAT HOPE!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

It is a great tribute to the entire team, and Hope's coaches that they stopped Calvin from running away with the game.  A lesser team, with lesser talent would probably have gotten blown out in that situation.  Hope fans have every right to be proud of their team.  I have sat in the bleachers at the end of rivalry games when the circumstances were reversed, and felt great pride that Calvin had forced a better team to beat them.

Forgive me, but I'm not sure where this idea came from that Calvin was supposed to win  this game.  The teams appeared very even given their performances against common opponents and Hope had the home court advantage.  Perhaps Calvin's blowout win at Adrian skewed the perception going in, but Adrian's loss to Alma should certainly put things in perspective.  Frankly, I am surprised to hear so much Hope talk about a moral victory.  Perhaps it is a coping mechanism.

For me it's not a moral victory or a coping mechanism - and it wasn't that Calvin was supposed to win this game.  It's my honest assessment of a game where we shot the ball poorly, in part due to Calvin's defense, but mostly we had a lot of open looks that didn't go in.  Considering that and the fact that we played without our point guard for 18 minutes of the first half, and we still had a chance to win is something to hang your hat on - call it confidence that we can beat Calvin, and have a legitimate shot at winning the MIAA - despite this being a rebuilding year.

[ziggy]

Sorry if this was posted before, but it may be interesting to point out that Hope only holds a 4-3 advantage in the rivalry at the DeVos Fieldhouse.  Quite a stark contrast from their record against other opponents in that building.

01/17/09    DeVos Fieldhouse    Calvin 66, Hope 64
03/01/08    DeVos Fieldhouse    Hope 88, Calvin 72
02/20/08    DeVos Fieldhouse    Hope 76, Calvin 59
02/24/07    DeVos Fieldhouse    Calvin 78, Hope 76
02/07/07    DeVos Fieldhouse    Calvin 77, Hope 71
03/04/06    DeVos Fieldhouse    Hope 70, Calvin 67
01/14/06    DeVos Fieldhouse    Hope 73, Calvin 55

The aggregate score may be more solidly in Hopes favor, but I consider those loses moral victories so I reject that stat completely.

[ziggy]

For me it's not a moral victory or a coping mechanism - and it wasn't that Calvin was supposed to win this game.  It's my honest assessment of a game where we shot the ball poorly, in part due to Calvin's defense, but mostly we had a lot of open looks that didn't go in.  Considering that and the fact that we played without our point guard for 18 minutes of the first half, and we still had a chance to win is something to hang your hat on - call it confidence that we can beat Calvin, and have a legitimate shot at winning the MIAA - despite this being a rebuilding year.

It just seems to be quite selective in the stats to "hang your hat on".  Hope had the kind of turnover differential that would cause one to expect a blowout win, shooting woes notwithstanding.  You can't look at the bad stats and say, "but we still could have won" and not look at others that say, "we should have won and didn't".

[wiz]

The aggregate score may be more solidly in Hopes favor, but I consider those loses moral victories so I reject that stat completely.

Ziggy, my friend, you're not turning homerist on me, are you?

[DenverKnight]

I thought you folks might like an update on the Rivalry activities here in Denver.  202 people showed up at The Fox and the Hound Pub to watch the game; 157 Calvin fans and 45 rooting for Hope.   Not a bad turn out considering that is was sunny and about 65 degrees outside.  It's pretty cool how this game brings alumni from both schools together all across the country.

[formerd3db]

Forgive me for posting this on here colleagues, however, as a tangential topic, I just had to throw this in.  You have been talking about the great Hope/Calvin basketball game that took place yesterday and, indeed, it sounded like the usual "barnburner" that many of those have been.  I was unable to attend the game and, for sure, missed a good one as you have mentioned. 

Yet, just as it was disappointing for Hope to lose the basketball game and and great win for Calvin, you can figure the same, which was just the opposite outcome at the Hope/Calvin hockey game last evening at The Edge (Hope's home ice arena), which I did attend.  Like the basketball game, the atmosphere was exciting, intense and very school spirited for both teams.  A capacity, standing room only crowd (well over 1,000 people and quite possibly 1500 or more depending on the fire code - I did not hear the final "official" attendance figure, although many more bought tickets after it was essentially "sold out".

The game was so intense, with Calvin having furious and very fast, talented skaters - they hounded the Hope net the entire game.  However, Hope's players held strong and Senior goalie Mike Headley played perhaps one of the greatest games ever in a fantastic job of stopping shots, Calvin outshooting Hope by over 2-1.  The game was tied after the regulation 3 periods, went into Overtime, which ended still in a tie.  The Headley saved the day and game with a fantastic stop(s) during the shootout tie-breaker, after Hope had scored to go 1 up in the shootout.  The crowd noise was deafening, just like at a Hope/Calvin basketball game.  Anyway, while a  disappointing loss for Calvin, this will go down as one of the great wins for Hope's hockey program, and...just another great story in the great Hope/Calvin athletic rivalry, regardless of the sport.

Again, my apologies for this "football guy" posting this "hockey story" here on the MIAA basketball board, but just had to share it with you all.  BTW, interesting and great comments all (and as always) on the basketball game    

[ziggy]

The aggregate score may be more solidly in Hopes favor, but I consider those loses moral victories so I reject that stat completely.

Ziggy, my friend, you're not turning homerist on me, are you?

Perhaps a sarcastic homerist

[HopeConvert]

For me it's not a moral victory or a coping mechanism - and it wasn't that Calvin was supposed to win this game.  It's my honest assessment of a game where we shot the ball poorly, in part due to Calvin's defense, but mostly we had a lot of open looks that didn't go in.  Considering that and the fact that we played without our point guard for 18 minutes of the first half, and we still had a chance to win is something to hang your hat on - call it confidence that we can beat Calvin, and have a legitimate shot at winning the MIAA - despite this being a rebuilding year.

It just seems to be quite selective in the stats to "hang your hat on".  Hope had the kind of turnover differential that would cause one to expect a blowout win, shooting woes notwithstanding.  You can't look at the bad stats and say, "but we still could have won" and not look at others that say, "we should have won and didn't".

Sure you can, because not all stats are created equal. Did Calvin cause Hope to miss? Did Hope cause Calvin to turn the ball over? I would take FDF to be suggesting that the latter is more true than the former. That may be a self-serving interpretation, or it may in fact be true. As I saw the game yesterday the turnovers were more a result of good defense than the poor shooting was. I could well be wrong about that, but if I'm right, then it's something to hang your hat on.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Since there is no hockey board, a quick follow-up on former's post - has there been any talk of other MIAA schools following Adrian into varsity hockey status?