MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi:

The short answer is "no", however, so as to not take up space here (and bore our bb posting colleagues - and incure their wrath ) I will reply to you by personal message.

Lacrosse will become elevated to varsity before hockey will in the MIAA, yet that will be "down the road" as yet.  I will say, however, that, for all practical purposes, Hope and Calvin's hockey and lacrosse programs are essentially "virtual varsity" already - despite the "club" nomer, it is collegiate hockey just governed by a different national organization similar to the NCAA by the latter's rules.  But ah...I'm violating my own rule here - so will fill you in more on the PM section.

[calvin_grad]

When that started I nudged the person next to me and said "watch this"............."You can't fill it, You can't fill it".    Just a beautifull, poignant retort, I could see it coming from 3 sections away.  It was game, set, match Dew Crew before it even started.

There wasn't much after that, ......there didn't need to be.   

Congratulations on the creativity.  I'll take scoreboard!!  

[sac]

I guess we've arrived at a point where no matter what or how I write or post something its going to be interpreted in one way.

Apparently I didn't make clear what I was trying to express, which in no way was leaning towards saying yesterday was some sort of moral victory, those are others words not mine.

I guess I saw deeper meaning in the game, than just a basketball result. 

[northb]

Forgive me for posting this on here colleagues, however, as a tangential topic, I just had to throw this in.  You have been talking about the great Hope/Calvin basketball game that took place yesterday and, indeed, it sounded like the usual "barnburner" that many of those have been.  I was unable to attend the game and, for sure, missed a good one as you have mentioned. 

Yet, just as it was disappointing for Hope to lose the basketball game and and great win for Calvin, you can figure the same, which was just the opposite outcome at the Hope/Calvin hockey game last evening at The Edge (Hope's home ice arena), which I did attend.  Like the basketball game, the atmosphere was exciting, intense and very school spirited for both teams.  A capacity, standing room only crowd (well over 1,000 people and quite possibly 1500 or more depending on the fire code - I did not hear the final "official" attendance figure, although many more bought tickets after it was essentially "sold out".

The game was so intense, with Calvin having furious and very fast, talented skaters - they hounded the Hope net the entire game.  However, Hope's players held strong and Senior goalie Mike Headley played perhaps one of the greatest games ever in a fantastic job of stopping shots, Calvin outshooting Hope by over 2-1.  The game was tied after the regulation 3 periods, went into Overtime, which ended still in a tie.  The Headley saved the day and game with a fantastic stop(s) during the shootout tie-breaker, after Hope had scored to go 1 up in the shootout.  The crowd noise was deafening, just like at a Hope/Calvin basketball game.  Anyway, while a  disappointing loss for Calvin, this will go down as one of the great wins for Hope's hockey program, and...just another great story in the great Hope/Calvin athletic rivalry, regardless of the sport.

Again, my apologies for this "football guy" posting this "hockey story" here on the MIAA basketball board, but just had to share it with you all.  BTW, interesting and great comments all (and as always) on the basketball game    

So it was a game Calvin "should have won"?   

[AlwaysHope]

But I think only the most homerist of Hope fans would have believed Hope was the favorite to win the MIAA this year.

The majority of them post here.

At least they post more than one line sentences.

Shucks, I guess you've got us not just in public nudity, but verbosity too.    And if I understand you, Calvin shouldn't be too excited to be on top in the standings, since Hope is rebuilding this year and never expected to contend?

I really think you're reading more into words than are there.  I've never made such a statement that Calvin shouldn't be excited..........and yes I believe all along Hope expected to contend, which is very different from expecting to win.

If you're interpreting the words from the 'circles' post, it does not mean literally "we weren't supposed to win",........it can take on several meanings, probably the one that hits the closest is the fact Hope hasn't hit a last second shot to beat Calvin.  Given the history of this series, I think you could pick out why those don't appear like they're supposed to go in.

Regarding "Hope hasn't hit a last second shot to beat Calvin"... may be true in recent years.  If it happened in the 80's or 90's I don't recall.  It did not happen in the 70's, when Calvin won every game.  But...

...as I recalled in detail in an earlier post several years ago, in 1965 Hope freshman Don Kronemeyer sank the winning free throw about 3 - 5 minutes AFTER the buzzer went off at the end of the second overtime.  He was fouled a fraction of a second before the buzzer.  (This became known in the Hope Nation basketball lore as the "Kronemeyer Flop", an ancestor of the "Immink Flop.")  At that time they did not restore any time on the clock.  After the refs discussed it, "Krony" calmly went to the free throw line at the west end of the Civic Center with all the players at half court, and calmly sank the front end of a one and one.  Game over, except they did remove all the fans that rushed to the court and require Krony to shoot (and sink) the second free throw, which was over 5 minutes after the preceding free throw.  Thus the game officially ended about 10 minutes AFTER the buzzer.  Krony got carried off the court twice!

Without going into detail, this play was preceded by a wierd situation where a Calvin free throw shooter had his first free throw taken off the scoreboard because he had his toe on the line, and thus could not take his second shot.

This win eventually resulted in another MIAA title for the Flying Dutchman.  It is the only game I have ever seen won (and lost) after the buzzer.  I don't think it could  happen again, because now they would restore time on the clock, even if less than a second.  Of course, the clocks back then only showed whole seconds.

Does that make it the only Hope-Calvin Buzzer-EATER?

[AlwaysHope]

I guess we've arrived at a point where no matter what or how I write or post something its going to be interpreted in one way.

Apparently I didn't make clear what I was trying to express, which in no way was leaning towards saying yesterday was some sort of moral victory, those are others words not mine.

I guess I saw deeper meaning in the game, than just a basketball result. 

Sac, this week it must be the "Audacity of Hope."

P.S.  Good to see you again yesterday!

[ziggy]

I guess we've arrived at a point where no matter what or how I write or post something its going to be interpreted in one way.

Apparently I didn't make clear what I was trying to express, which in no way was leaning towards saying yesterday was some sort of moral victory, those are others words not mine.

My comments were not directed at you.  I was surprised to see it mentioned that Calvin was "supposed" to win this game, especially since this was never mentioned by anyone prior to the game.  The poll and pick 'em certainly did not indicate this to be true.  Sure, the pick 'em can certainly be biased but the poll is anonymous (as far as I know).  GVW was obviously irritated during his post game presser, and many of his comments stopped just short of excuses; solidifying the "moral victory" sentiments I have sensed.  I have a hard time believing that if Jesse's shot had fallen the comments would be in reference to Hope's upset win.

I guess I saw deeper meaning in the game, than just a basketball result. 

Guess I'm not that deep.  The dimensional juxtaposition between the picture of the sphere and the analogy of the circle was mind blowing. 

[sac]

Guess I'm not that deep.  The dimensional juxtaposition between the picture of the sphere and the analogy of the circle was mind blowing. 

Glad someone's was, because with 9.1 seconds and knowing what was coming, mine was.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Did Calvin cause Hope to miss? Did Hope cause Calvin to turn the ball over?

It was a big game.  I blame both on a case of the gitters.

[AndersDY]

Three other observations:

• And speaking of calls . . . Calvin fans, it looked to many of us like Jesse had a clean block on that foul call that led to the winning free throws.  Was this the refs deciding the game?  (I'll grant, you were closer.)
  

It looked like Jesse could have gotten Mantel with the body, but I'm not sure.

As I told a few of our Hope posters, I haven't made it back to the board much this season. The first Hope-Calvin installment was enough to get me back here to read a little. Most everything has been said already, but I saw this post regarding the late foul and I think the foul being referenced wasn't actually on Reimink. If it's the play I remember, Jesse did get a clean block on the ball but it came after a foul that was credited to Krombeen, which did appear legitimate. In late calls, it was also quite surprising to me that on the scramble with 12 seconds, the officials managed to make no calls until the out of bounds; it looked like any number of borderline fouls were there, but they let the players play at the end which is what we usually are hoping for.

This game seemed to be just one of those nightmare games we can feel going Calvin's way at all the key points. Veltema's wild 3 found the net and I even called that last 3 of Caleb's as it left his hand since that is one of those key points where it seems to us that Calvin's shot will always fall at the worst possible times. Hope's abysmal shooting took us out of the game too, but Calvin seemed to do everything right when they needed to. Of course, I know my memories are skewed toward always fearing the worst in this rivalry as I had not been paying attention to the fact that we had a little 5 game mini-streak going.

[GoKnights68]

Three other observations:

• And speaking of calls . . . Calvin fans, it looked to many of us like Jesse had a clean block on that foul call that led to the winning free throws.  Was this the refs deciding the game?  (I'll grant, you were closer.)
  

It looked like Jesse could have gotten Mantel with the body, but I'm not sure.

Of course, I know my memories are skewed toward always fearing the worst in this rivalry as I had not been paying attention to the fact that we had a little 5 game mini-streak going.

It was a 4 game mini-steak. 

This rivalry has had quite a few impressive streaks.  Everyone knows about the 1970's, but I am pretty sure Calvin also won 10 straight in the early 90s, while Hope also won 10 straight in the mid-90s until it was snapped in 1999.  Calvin then went on to win 5 straight games until Hope snapped that streak in the 2002 league tourney championship.

[GoKnights68]

This is random, but I was curious to see if anyone knew what percent of the tickets go Calvin fans each time they play there?

[sac]

This is random, but I was curious to see if anyone knew what percent of the tickets go Calvin fans each time they play there?

I believe Calvin had two full sections, probably between 500 and 600 tickets I would guess.

DeVos seats 3500 or so, there are 500 seats in the West endzone, so 3,000 in the bowl with 10 sections.   3000/10 = 300.

Give or take for off the cuff calculation, but I think thats pretty close.

[sac]

Three other observations:

• And speaking of calls . . . Calvin fans, it looked to many of us like Jesse had a clean block on that foul call that led to the winning free throws.  Was this the refs deciding the game?  (I'll grant, you were closer.)
  

It looked like Jesse could have gotten Mantel with the body, but I'm not sure.

Of course, I know my memories are skewed toward always fearing the worst in this rivalry as I had not been paying attention to the fact that we had a little 5 game mini-streak going.

It was a 4 game mini-steak. 

This rivalry has had quite a few impressive streaks.  Everyone knows about the 1970's, but I am pretty sure Calvin also won 10 straight in the early 90s, while Hope also won 10 straight in the mid-90s until it was snapped in 1999.  Calvin then went on to win 5 straight games until Hope snapped that streak in the 2002 league tourney championship.

Streaks after the 70's

1982-85  Hope won 8 straight
1988-90  Calvin won 6 straight
1991-94  Calvin won 9 striaght
1995-98  Hope won 10 straight
2000-02  Calvin won 6 straight
2003-04  Hope won 4 straight
2006-07  Hope won 4 straight
2007-08  Hope won 4 straight

http://www.hope.edu/pr/athletics/mbb/mbbvsmiaa.html
***this is missing the final game from 2008, an 88-72 Hope win in the MIAA Championship

[Flying Dutch Fan]

This is random, but I was curious to see if anyone knew what percent of the tickets go Calvin fans each time they play there?

I believe Calvin had two full sections, probably between 500 and 600 tickets I would guess.

DeVos seats 3500 or so, there are 500 seats in the West endzone, so 3,000 in the bowl with 10 sections.   3000/10 = 300.

Give or take for off the cuff calculation, but I think thats pretty close.

Whatever the actual percentage is - it's an agreed upon percentage that each school gives to the other when hosting - this applies only to the two regular season games.