MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

So I guess the question is then, are there no mirrors in VanNoord? 

Well, sac, as you have probably heard, the VanNoord is really quite large (you know we can't fill it) and I haven't had a chance to check out any mirrors yet, but I did notice a couple of really nice banners.

Most Hope fans care as much about those as the mirrors in VanNoord. 

[Dark Knight]

Massey finally came out with computer ratings for basketball (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1). Here's Massey's take on the MIAA, using Massey's MOV-based ratings:

#15 Calvin (12.2)
#24 Hope (11.2)
#99 Olivet (1.7)
#106 Albion (0.5)
#171 Adrian (-4.3)
#267 Tri-State (-7)
#271 Kalamazoo (-9.8 )
#310 Alma (-12)

Note that Massey's ratings are based on all games this season, not just the last four, so they should be more accurate than Trish. On the other hand, if some MIAA teams have young players and are progressing fast (e.g. Alma), the last four games may be more predictive.

The MIAA comes in at #22 -- not as bad as a couple of years ago, but still down. [but see below...]

Here's what Massey has to say about today's MIAA games, using three points for the home court advantage:

Hope over Alma by 26
Calvin over Olivet by 14
Albion over Kalamazoo by 13
Trine over Adrian by 0.3

[oldknight]

DK:  Are you sure about the MIAA ranking at #22?  My review of the conference rankings shows the MIAA at #13. Am I reading the chart incorrectly?

Also, the chart inaccurately lists Calvin's overall record to be 9-6 when it is 9-5.

[Dark Knight]

DK:  Are you sure about the MIAA ranking at #22?  My review of the conference rankings shows the MIAA at #13. Am I reading the chart incorrectly?

Also, the chart inaccurately lists Calvin's overall record to be 9-6 when it is 9-5.

OK, you are correct. I got the #22 from Massey's Non-MOV-based ratings page. I like the MOV-based ratings better.

Also, note that #9, #11, and #12 aren't DIII conferences, so that puts the MIAA at #10 -- in that traditional #7-#10 range. The rumors of the MIAA's demise have been greatly exaggerated. (Last year the MIAA finished at #8, #15 in 2007, #7 in 2006.)

Calvin is listed at 9-6 because Massey counted the exhibition game against Ferris St. Without counting that game, Calvin might rate slightly higher.

[ziggy]

Then we have this lesson from someone's tagline......

Your = possessive. As in, "your grammar sucks."

You're = you are. As in, "you're an idiot for not knowing the difference."

So I guess the question is then, are there no mirrors in VanNoord? 

Why do you assume this is singularly targeted at you?  I copied it from someone's signature on another board I frequent because I found it to be a funny explanation of an all too common mistake.  Please let me know if you would like any further explanations of anything on my profile.  Next time, it will be easier if you just call me out by name if you're going to call me out.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Will someone please start passing out the Midol?

[gohope]

http://www.hope.edu/hopetoday/


Who is that Dapper Dude in the middle of the "Civil Rights Celebration - A Presidential Election Panel Discussion" picture??!!   

Pretty fun to have your smile on the front page of the HopeToday webpage!

[sac]

Then we have this lesson from someone's tagline......

Your = possessive. As in, "your grammar sucks."

You're = you are. As in, "you're an idiot for not knowing the difference."

So I guess the question is then, are there no mirrors in VanNoord? 

Why do you assume this is singularly targeted at you?  I copied it from someone's signature on another board I frequent because I found it to be a funny explanation of an all too common mistake.  Please let me know if you would like any further explanations of anything on my profile.  Next time, it will be easier if you just call me out by name if you're going to call me out.

Never said it was, but you can't see how someone might take that as being a 'superior' attitude.   Remember the comment directed at me................so no mirrors then.

[sac]

Massey finally came out with computer ratings for basketball (http://www.masseyratings.com/rate.php?lg=cb&sub=III&mid=1). Here's Massey's take on the MIAA, using Massey's MOV-based ratings:

#15 Calvin (12.2)
#24 Hope (11.2)
#99 Olivet (1.7)
#106 Albion (0.5)
#171 Adrian (-4.3)
#267 Tri-State (-7)
#271 Kalamazoo (-9.8 )
#310 Alma (-12)

Note that Massey's ratings are based on all games this season, not just the last four, so they should be more accurate than Trish. On the other hand, if some MIAA teams have young players and are progressing fast (e.g. Alma), the last four games may be more predictive.

The MIAA comes in at #22 -- not as bad as a couple of years ago, but still down. [but see below...]

Here's what Massey has to say about today's MIAA games:

Hope over Alma by 26
Calvin over Olivet by 14
Albion over Kalamazoo by 13
Trine over Adrian by 0.3

I like massey, but that error on Calvin's schedule skews every MIAA teams schedule  strength and ranking since his formula has a large strength of schedule component.  So I wouldn't put much faith on those rankings untill that error is corrected and what ever others lie in the schedule's.  I've found more than a couple over the past few years.

But on the surface, overall they are surprising.

[realist]

Technical question on the skewed Massey rating.  Could this be a by product of the fact the Calvin/Ferris game was an exhibition by definition for Calvin, but because of the calendar was counted as a game for Ferris?  To get the calculation right for Ferris the game has to be in their stats, but hard to show a W without a balancing L.
Did a similar thing happen for other schools in that situation?

[Dark Knight]

I like massey, but that error on Calvin's schedule skews every MIAA teams schedule  strength and ranking since his formula has a large strength of schedule component.  So I wouldn't put much faith on those rankings untill that error is corrected and what ever others lie in the schedule's.  I've found more than a couple over the past few years.

But on the surface, overall they are surprising.

Massey also has an exhibition game counted for Kalamazoo, and they have the Adrian-Alma score in backwards, as a win for Adrian. However, amid so many other games I don't think those will make much difference.

Calvin does show up with the 11th-toughest scheduled played so far, which surprised me a bit. I suppose that could go down a little if they take out Ferris St, but frankly, Ferris St isn't that good this year so I doubt it would make much difference.

Interestingly, Grace Bible would be 4th in the MIAA, if it were magically added, right behind Olivet.

[ziggy]

I like massey, but that error on Calvin's schedule skews every MIAA teams schedule  strength and ranking since his formula has a large strength of schedule component.  So I wouldn't put much faith on those rankings untill that error is corrected and what ever others lie in the schedule's.  I've found more than a couple over the past few years.

But on the surface, overall they are surprising.

Massey also has an exhibition game counted for Kalamazoo, and they have the Adrian-Alma score in backwards, as a win for Adrian. However, amid so many other games I don't think those will make much difference.

Calvin does show up with the 11th-toughest scheduled played so far, which surprised me a bit. I suppose that could go down a little if they take out Ferris St, but frankly, Ferris St isn't that good this year so I doubt it would make much difference.

Interestingly, Grace Bible would be 4th in the MIAA, if it were magically added, right behind Olivet.

I always think of billiards trick shot magic champ Mike Massey when the Massey rankings are discussed.  In my mind the guy is a master with the cue and does DIII basketball rankings in his spare time.

[sac]

I like massey, but that error on Calvin's schedule skews every MIAA teams schedule  strength and ranking since his formula has a large strength of schedule component.  So I wouldn't put much faith on those rankings untill that error is corrected and what ever others lie in the schedule's.  I've found more than a couple over the past few years.

But on the surface, overall they are surprising.

Massey also has an exhibition game counted for Kalamazoo, and they have the Adrian-Alma score in backwards, as a win for Adrian. However, amid so many other games I don't think those will make much difference.

Calvin does show up with the 11th-toughest scheduled played so far, which surprised me a bit. I suppose that could go down a little if they take out Ferris St, but frankly, Ferris St isn't that good this year so I doubt it would make much difference.

Interestingly, Grace Bible would be 4th in the MIAA, if it were magically added, right behind Olivet.

If Massey uses anything that includes an opponents-opponents schedule you're then including alot of D2 programs from the Ferris game, and alot of D1 programs from Kzoo's game with Western..............which then affects all of the MIAA strength of schedule.

I think the numbers would come down alot actually for all MIAA teams.

1 game vs Ferris is at leat 1/15 of Calvin's total schedule............and Ferris is ranked just behind Hope in the total ranking, meaning Calvin is getting credit for basically playing another Hope strength game.  Take that away and Calvin's #'s drop as does the rest of the MIAA.

[Dark Knight]

If Massey uses anything that includes an opponents-opponents schedule you're then including alot of D2 programs from the Ferris game, and alot of D1 programs from Kzoo's game with Western..............which then affects all of the MIAA strength of schedule.

I think the numbers would come down alot actually for all MIAA teams.

1 game vs Ferris is at leat 1/15 of Calvin's total schedule............and Ferris is ranked just behind Hope in the total ranking, meaning Calvin is getting credit for basically playing another Hope strength game.  Take that away and Calvin's #'s drop as does the rest of the MIAA.

Massey computes strength of schedule and home court advantage after computing team power ratings, so the strength of schedule figures don't affect the power ratings directly.

This is a MOV-based ranking, so you have to take into account how the result came out. Calvin lost at Ferris St. by 12 I believe, and Ferris St. is ranked similarly to Hope. That means the Ferris game is pulling down Calvin's ratings a little (and with it the rest of the MIAA, but an even smaller amount).

But if Calvin did 10 points or so worse than expected against Ferris St, and the game was some time ago and therefore weighted less, that's probably only a half point or so that Calvin's power would go up if the game were removed.

Massey computes strength of schedule and home court advantage figures after computing power ratings, so strength of schedule figures would not directly impact power.

[realist]

Sac:  What you are pointing out is true, but Calvin did play the D2 school, and did lose.  The same is the case for Kalamazoo.  Wouldn't Calvin"s, and Kazoo's remaining strenght of schedule actually drag down the D2 and D1 programs?