MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[dumezrules]

GVW's interview with the Press after Hope "lost the score, but not the game."

WTH is that supposed to mean? Complete nonsense.

Thanks for the post.  I asked myself the same question.  I think this one goes on the  list with moral victory etc. etc. etc.   

In sports (especially basketball, hockey also comes to mind..)) it is possible to completely outplay the other team and lose the game.  GVW means...he is happy with how Hope competed and how they played...except for the shooting percentage.  That is something that happens in a season.  You will have a game where NO ONE is making anything....

Bob Knight said it best:  " In a 30 game season, you will have about 6 games where you shoot so good, you cant believe it, 6 games where you shoot so bad, that cant be your team....and the rest is who your team really is." 

Every game one can think of involves some method of "keeping score".  To outplay someone by definition implies that you outscored that person.  You play the game to win, and you keep score to track or chart your progress towards that objective.
It sounds like sour grapes when you hear someone try to rationalize a loss by making lame excuses or questionable statements.
I only added my comment because IMHO a good journalist should have  edited the comment out.

I'm confused.  So Calvin won the score but Hope won the game?  how does that work?

Thank you to all who put words into my statement that I didnt...It was never stated that Hope won the game...only that GVW should be happy with everything but his team's shooting....just sticking up for coaches everywhere who get ripped on for supporting their team publicly while others rip them down....

Calvin will have opportunity to validate the game at least one more time this year.  If Hope shoots 3 for 24 on mostly unguarded 3 pointers again, they will probably lose again.   

Some grumpy people on here today....

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Desmond Young has been named MIAA player of the week.  A well deserved honor for one of the nation's greatest scorers.

[Civic Minded]

I'm confused.  So Calvin won the score but Hope won the game?  how does that work?

Give it a rest.  You've got to take anything head coaches say with a grain of salt.  GVW is not trying to take anything away from Calvin's victory.  He's just trying to put the loss in a good light for his team.  It's worthless to argue over whether a win was a pyrrhic victory or a loss was a moral victory. Calvin won fair and square.  GVW is hoping his squad can take enough positives away so they get the win at Calvin. 

Exactly...thanks for summing that up well, scottiedawg.

I've been sidelined with some arthroscopic surgery, so I havent' posted in a while, but honestly folks, what the heck?  Sac posts some facts, and his karma takes a huge hit.  Calvin beats Hope, and there's so much chest thumping and GVW bashing that I'm beginning to think that a fair number of Calvin posters are simply riddled with major insecurities (or p*ssed off that Hope posters are not more upset about losing the game).    Add me to those who weren't mired in disappointment that Hope lost.  Congratulations to Calvin for the win.  Couldn't we all just be a little gracious, for Pete's sake?  Or is gracious lost when bitterness, insecurity, and jealousy set in?  I do not know the answer, but the tone of what's been going on here is nauseating.  If that upsets you, I'm sorry.  If that makes you take it out on the karma of Hope posters (again), so be it.  

I do know that a vast majority of Hope posters no longer post what they really feel here, because of the immature reactions it will cause.  And maybe that's okay.  We know where to find each other if we want to have a civilized discussion.  I'm just a little disappointed that, more often than not, it cannot be here with all of you.  I'd welcome a mature discussion of the Hope/Calvin game, or the Albion/Calvin game (which I saw in person but won't discuss here).  Maybe some day...

[almcguirejr]

It is somewhat ironic that a poster who now wonders why anyone could/would care about anything their coach might now say only a few short weeks ago posted the fact that coach was going on Hoopsville.

Ya think there might be a few Hope posters that frequent this site that might have been interested?

I only wonder why opposing fans care so much, at least once a year a quote gets pulled from some article somewhere and is ridiculed.

Only once a year?  We should be applauded for showing restraint.

[sac]

Calvin will have opportunity to validate the game at least one more time this year.  If Hope shoots 3 for 24 on mostly unguarded 3 pointers again, they will probably lose again.   

Some grumpy people on here today....

I pretty sure the game was validated on 1/17 when they won.  Maybe they'll beat hope again, maybe not.

Does anybody know which MIAA teams give up the most open 3's?  This could be an interesting statistic.

miaa.org      under statistics

the definition of validated can be found at websters.com


I can be cocky and smartmouthed too.

[ziggy]

Calvin will have opportunity to validate the game at least one more time this year.  If Hope shoots 3 for 24 on mostly unguarded 3 pointers again, they will probably lose again.   

Some grumpy people on here today....

I pretty sure the game was validated on 1/17 when they won.  Maybe they'll beat hope again, maybe not.

Does anybody know which MIAA teams give up the most open 3's?  This could be an interesting statistic.

I checked the box scores but they don't show the number of open shots taken.  For some inexplicable reason it only lists shots attempted and shots made.  Calvin leads the league in FG% defense, but since they obviously just give up open shots they must be doing something unorthodox.  Perhaps KVS has developed some sort of aura or force field that causes opponents shot to miss for no reason.  I would suggest the Knollcrest dining hall food has something to do with it, but this is a pretty veteran team so they aren't fed on campus.  The mystery continues...

[sac]

Calvin will have opportunity to validate the game at least one more time this year.  If Hope shoots 3 for 24 on mostly unguarded 3 pointers again, they will probably lose again.   

Some grumpy people on here today....

I pretty sure the game was validated on 1/17 when they won.  Maybe they'll beat hope again, maybe not.

Does anybody know which MIAA teams give up the most open 3's?  This could be an interesting statistic.

I checked the box scores but they don't show the number of open shots taken.  For some inexplicable reason it only lists shots attempted and shots made.  Calvin leads the league in FG% defense, but since they obviously just give up open shots they must be doing something unorthodox.  Perhaps KVS has developed some sort of aura or force field that causes opponents shot to miss for no reason.  I would suggest the Knollcrest dining hall food has something to do with it, but this is a pretty veteran team so they aren't fed on campus.  The mystery continues...

responses like this one are a major reason this isn't a very fun place to talk basketball anymore.

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responses like this one are a major reason this isn't a very fun place to talk basketball anymore.

My post was a more overtly ridiculous comment to an equally ridiculous assertion.

Neither the chicken, nor the egg, are absolved of culpability.

[CalvinChelseaMom]

Hi everyone. Just a few thoughts. First, I'm glad folks here love their teams so much. I think that's great. And I have learned A LOT from the many posters here, especially since I'm relatively new to the MIAA. Second, I enjoy reading constructive analyses of the games. Unfortunately, the good stuff gets bogged down with all of the petty arguments and wisecracks, etc. So...I'm wondering if, in the name of good sportsmanship, we all could feel secure enough to cheer on our team and coach, etc. without needing to tear down someone else's team and coach, etc. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to make some sarcastic remark but have checked myself because it doesn't help anyone and it doesn't really add anything positive to the discussion. So, just a friendly encouragement to stay positive, let things slide, and help make this board an informative, good-natured site that we can all enjoy.

[sac]

responses like this one are a major reason this isn't a very fun place to talk basketball anymore.

My post was a more overtly ridiculous comment to an equally ridiculous assertion.

Neither the chicken, nor the egg, are absolved of culpability.

Well there's a reason I know 2 posters who no longer post here, and 2 more who no longer read the miaa board.

[sac]

Hi everyone. Just a few thoughts. First, I'm glad folks here love their teams so much. I think that's great. And I have learned A LOT from the many posters here, especially since I'm relatively new to the MIAA. Second, I enjoy reading constructive analyses of the games. Unfortunately, the good stuff gets bogged down with all of the petty arguments and wisecracks, etc. So...I'm wondering if, in the name of good sportsmanship, we all could feel secure enough to cheer on our team and coach, etc. without needing to tear down someone else's team and coach, etc. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to make some sarcastic remark but have checked myself because it doesn't help anyone and it doesn't really add anything positive to the discussion. So, just a friendly encouragement to stay positive, let things slide, and help make this board an informative, good-natured site that we can all enjoy.

Thank you

[formerd3db]

In sports (especially basketball, hockey also comes to mind..)) it is possible to completely outplay the other team and lose the game. 

I strongly disagree.

With all due respect, then you probably didn't see the recent Hope/Calvin hockey game.  In almost all aspects and categories, Calvin did outplay Hope through the three regulation periods, the overtime period and the Shootout, with the exception that Hope's goalie won the game by stopping one more Shootout shot than Calvin's.  We're talking semantics here, however, I think that many people would agree with dz.

BTW, if I may jump in here and add a comment, most people put in one of the yellow face icons within their posting of comments to indicate when they are being sarcastic, trying to add some levity, etc., to the discussion.  I think that most posters know that, howevr, there may be some that don't.  In addition, I'm sure that most of us would agree that there is nothing wrong with strongly posting one's opinion even if we vehemently disagree with someone - as long as it is done in a respectful manner.  Personal attacks and "playground" childishness in commenting on these boards cross the line and have no place here - we all know that is the truth.  Thanks to CalvinChelseaMom for her very good comments and opinion reminding us of this.  Let's continue to have fun, be respectful as well as thankful that we even have a website like this in the first place to participate and enjoy.

[Gregory Sager]

The NESCACers scoffed at the idea that Calvin/Hope was in a higher category than Amherst/Williams when it came to basketball rivalries, but I doubt that Jeffs and Ephs fans have ever continued to bust each other in the chops over a game and its aftermath nine days after it was actually played.

[sac]

Two teams have huge weeks in the MIAA, Adrian and Olivet.  They play each other Wednesday and the loser will be in a must win situation Saturday.

Olivet @ Adrian Wednesday.  If Adrian can put together the kind of effort they did vs Hope they should come out on top.  They'll find the rebounding much more difficult than they did vs Hope.  It might be worth the price of admission just to see Michael Staley and Andre Evans play against each other.  Those are probably the two quickest guards in the league.

On Saturday, Olivet  @  Hope.  Not a good place to go if you're in a must win situation.  Olivet has proven to be tough as nails on the road and they were right with Hope at the end in Olivet.  That should be another close game.


Albion @ Adrian.  The Bulldogs won the first meeting and after seeing Albion Saturday I'd call Adrian the favorite in this one.  Albion's season is on the brink in my opinion, they really need this one.

These are probably the 3 biggest games in the league this week.


A good week (2-0) and that team will remain in striking distance,  2 losses and the title chase is over and its about playing for the tournament.  Even a  1-1 mark might eliminate a team from the title.

Its possible and maybe even likely that all 4 teams tied for 3rd will take at least one loss this week.  The team that comes out 2-0 undoubtedly has the upperhand with regards to being the 3rd team chasing Hope/Calvin.

Alma --Albion, Kalamazoo
Albion -- Alma, @ Adrian
Adrian -- Olivet, Albion
Olivet -- @Adrian, @ Hope

[sac]

GVW's interview with the Press after Hope "lost the score, but not the game."

WTH is that supposed to mean? Complete nonsense.

Thanks for the post.  I asked myself the same question.  I think this one goes on the  list with moral victory etc. etc. etc.   

In sports (especially basketball, hockey also comes to mind..)) it is possible to completely outplay the other team and lose the game.  GVW means...he is happy with how Hope competed and how they played...except for the shooting percentage.  That is something that happens in a season.  You will have a game where NO ONE is making anything....

Bob Knight said it best:  " In a 30 game season, you will have about 6 games where you shoot so good, you cant believe it, 6 games where you shoot so bad, that cant be your team....and the rest is who your team really is." 

I see this in hockey and soccer all the time.