MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Hope's Saturday average: 3,383.5
Hope's Wednesday average: 2,350

I don't really know what this proves, we played Alma and Trine on those Wednesday games.

[KnightSlappy]

Hope's Saturday average: 3,383.5
Hope's Wednesday average: 2,350

I don't really know what this proves, we played Alma and Trine on those Wednesday games.

Are you looking for proof or do you just want to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt?

Seriously though, I don't think I asserted that I was intending to prove anything one way or the other.  I was just looking at numbers and throwing out suggestions as to why the numbers may look the way they do.

But if you insist that I prove something with every post, I guess I proved that Hope averages more spectators on Saturdays than they do on Wednesdays.

[sac]

Hope's Saturday average: 3,383.5
Hope's Wednesday average: 2,350

I don't really know what this proves, we played Alma and Trine on those Wednesday games.

Are you looking for proof or do you just want to be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt?

Seriously though, I don't think I asserted that I was intending to prove anything one way or the other.  I was just looking at numbers and throwing out suggestions as to why the numbers may look the way they do.

But if you insist that I prove something with every post, I guess I proved that Hope averages more spectators on Saturdays than they do on Wednesdays.

I'm not looking for anything, the only point I brought up was last year Hope had the 4 Wed game schedule and the avg is pretty much exactly the same as this year.

I don't really feel what the day the game's are played have made much of a difference for Hope.

Thats it thats all.  peace

[formerd3db]

sac:

With all due respect, I think that 1,000 spectator difference between a Wednesday and a Saturday is somewhat more of a difference.  I think that Saturdays will almost always have more attendance than a weekday or Wednesday (except for the big games such as a Hope/Calvin contest which will draw big regardless of whether it is held on Wed or Saturday).  I'm not trying to suggest proving anything either, but rather just presenting my opinion.  But, oops, there I go again - I said I wasn't going to comment any further on this topic and I did. Sorry.

[Stinger]

Hope outscored Kzoo at the freethrow line by  22 , so that should please the conspiracy theorists.

35-10 FT discrepancy.  Kzoo finishes with 6 more FG's than Hope.   

[dumezrules]

Someone more astute than I (and others here?) once remarked that on Saturday afternoons, Hope basketball is pretty much the only game in town and they have a lot of elderly boosters who are gloriously faithful to their team. e.g.: even with the students on midwinter break (or whatever it's called), they still packed the place with over 3200 fans. Calvin, on the other hand, as was recently pointed out, is just a couple of minutes from a large mall and a movie theatre that charges just $3.50 to see (second run?) films on the big screen; and there are a lot of good ones to see at this time.
Plus, Grand Rapids and all it has to offer are just minutes away and a day away from campus is sometimes a welcome respite. At Hope, you can still go to the game and get out in plenty of time to tour the town and still be home by dark.

AND what is less interesting than going to Calvin on a weekend?  I have never been on a campus with less excitement around it....must be the burden of predestination 

[formerd3db]

AND what is less interesting than going to Calvin on a weekend?  I have never been on a campus with less excitement around it....must be the burden of predestination 
[/quote]

dumezrules:

I take it then you've never been to Alma's campus.  I can guarantee you that campus has less excitement than Calvin's, which is a darn shame since Alma did not used to be like that.  When my brother attended and played athletics at Alma and I had a chance to visit, there was always some type of activity going on during the weekends; people playing intramural and/or pick-up basketball, frat and sorority parties (still have some of that, but not like the "campus-wide" special gatherings for those) and generally just students around on campus.  Not so anymore.  On weekends up there, it is like a ghost-town and even the attendance at the football games is not that great - unfortunately sometimes even at key/"big" games (sorry, I know there is the board for fb as bulldogalum mentioned ) Others such as sac have already mentioned the pathetic attendance at basketball games, which makes me wonder if Alma's plan for a new state-of-the-art arena to "keep up with the MIAA 'Jones'" is really going to help increase student and townfolk attendance.  I hope it does bring out more fans from both of those groups, especially since the facility can be used for other community activities/gatherings and hopefully the college and town will work towards promoting those aspects and making it happen.  With a new facility and atmosphere much better than a typical h.s. like gymnasium which they now how as someone else here described it  then hopefully more of the student enrollment will attend the bb games.  But...unfortunately, I have my doubts about that, yet I do hope it occurs.

I am not sure why this situation has occurred over the last 15 years or so.  Alma has a tough time recruiting for basketball and even with the last couple of coaches, it hasn't seemed to be able to get to that next "notch" in the process.  It is a good school.

In addition, I will dare say that even Olivet has improved with more activity at times on weekends (although not always) with more students involved in attending the athletic events and the community seems to support the college quite well also.  They have worked hard the last 10-15 years on all those aspects and with the upgrade in their facilities in all aspects (both academic and athletic facilities) that has really helped (of course, it does help when some of your alumni have step up for that big-time re: $ donations like they have there).  Now I'm not suggesting that Olivet will become the metropolis for these aspects, because it never will - it is still in a very small, old town.  Yet, the historic atmosphere has been preserved there in both the town (homes, businesses, etc) as well as at the historic buildings of the college along with their new ones, so overall that has helped.

As for Calvin and Hope in comparison to Alma - I think you other posters have hit that nail on the head very well.  Bulldogalum mentioned some aspects regarding the student apathy at Adrian, although I'd like to hear more of his and other's opinions as to how that relates to the town and same for Albion and even some from our Kazoo bretheren. 

[realist]

From the few students I ahve spoken with regarding attendance at athletic, and other campus events the story I am getting is "there is a lot to choose from".  This seems to tie in with the financial pressure many students are feeling.  Talking with a few Calvin profs. I formed the impression that students today are more intense or serious almost from the moment they step on campus.  Years ago Calvin had a high percentage of students from traditional CRC background.  With a much lower % of students (currently) from that homogenus background the interests they come with are wider, and more diverse.  If your reason for going to Calvin or Hope et. al. had nothing to do with athletics it shouldn't be surprising attending games aren't a priority.  I think where your students come from plays a big part in their campus involvement.  A kid at Calvin or Hope from MN or NJ is going to depend on the school/campus for social activity much more than a student from West MI.  If the kid can easily make it home on weekends they seem to maintain more social ties there, and depend on the school less to fill that role. 

[realist]

On a Calvin game broadcast a week or so ago Doug Wentworth mentioned a conversation he had with the SID at Albion.  From what he siad I formed the impression that Albion has done or had at least some exploratory discussion on improving/upgrading facilities.  Frankly, that would tie in perfectly with what I understand Coach Turner's present role with Albion College is. 
During a tour of the Calvin fieldhouse last summer the tour guide went into considerable lenghts discussing the need to have up to date, and competitive facilities when one is trying to attract students. 

[RFMichigan]

Interesting discussion about students attending sporting events at d3 schools. Two observations:
     1) Is it possible that in previous years, the student-athletes "mixed in" better with the general student population in classes, dorms, etc? Maybe athletes today are more "detatched" from their peers on campus (for whatever reason) which detracts from identifying with the players as representing their school.
     I asked my daughter why she hadn't attended any basketball games at the d3 school she attended and two of the things she mentioned included, "There are so many other things to do (in Chicago)" and "I don't know any players". She knew some football players and that was one of the reasons that she did attend some football games. I think that in a previous era, the players were "one of us" and it was easier to identify with them and support them by going to games.
     2) ALOT of students go home on weekends now (for reasons unbeknownest to me! ) so that takes away from the "this is our school - this is our life-this is our team" mentalaity.
Just some thoughts.

By the way, what's the best MIAA game this weekend? I ready to see a game and get into the mix here.

[ziggy]

By the way, what's the best MIAA game this weekend? I ready to see a game and get into the mix here.

The best game on Saturday looks to be Calvin at Olivet.  It is the only matchup of teams in the top half of the league, plus revenge is on the line.  A good weekend for Olivet to show off their new digs.

[ziggy]

Congratulations to John Mantel for being named the MIAA player of the week.  This is his third time being recognized as POTW this year, equaling Jesse Reimink for most awards this season.

I generally look over the Wednesday boxscores to see who may have the inside track on the player of the week honor.  Last week left me a bit underwhelmed as no one seemed to stick out.

[sac]

Hope outscored Kzoo at the freethrow line by  22 , so that should please the conspiracy theorists.

35-10 FT discrepancy.  Kzoo finishes with 6 more FG's than Hope.   

I think it was the refs grabbing 20 more rebounds..........quit fouling while Hope's shooting maybe?

4:27 to go K-16 fouls, Hope 14

K fouls 8 times in the last 4:30 to put Hope on the line.

[section7]

Random Thoughts:

1.  In regards to the reduced attendance at Devos on Wed Nights vs Saturday's.  It is obviously that Hope has 1,000 people attending Wednesday night services at their local house of worship.

2.  Is is just me or does SAC seem to be easily irritated recently?

3.  Stinger - the reason for the FT difference is because KZoo is a bunch of HACKS!  On second thought it may be because Jim Schipper (former Calvin player) was the lead ref in the game, and I'm sure he has Hope's best interests in mind

4.  Also, another classy move by a KZOO 'Stinger", flipping the Hope crowd the 'bird' on Saturday.  Another fine example of what a KZOO education will get you.

5.  How about GVW's tongue lashing of Peter Bunn in front of the entire DeVos.  I am sure Peter was majorly motivated after that experience.

6.  Chelsea Mom - congrats to your son on POW, glad to see you back on the forum, however, it is interesting that you disappeared for an extended period last year when your son and Calvin were under performing.  Maybe being 1st in the standings has got you back out and on the board.

7.  Finally, I will start the discussion now, because I am sure we will have this conversation after the season and the all MIAA teams are announced.  Do you think a player who has gone 0-8 and 4-16 in two specific league games and is shooting 35% from the floor and 30% from 3 for the entire season and 33% and 22% in MIAA play can be considered for 1st team status?  Thoughts?

Hope outscored Kzoo at the freethrow line by  22 , so that should please the conspiracy theorists.

35-10 FT discrepancy.  Kzoo finishes with 6 more FG's than Hope.   

[KnightSlappy]

Every player should be considered.  Not every player should receive the award.  Unless Caleb goes bonkers in the last two weeks he may not even see the second team.