MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

Hey all,

Great comments and the such but I want to switch gears a bit.  There is no chance at any Hope/Calvin coverage on my side of the state so I particularly appreciate what I can get through the Grand Rapids Press on mlive.  Perhaps those of you that live with the GR Press (or Holland Sentinel) as a constant feel differently, I don't know.  I just took a quick moment to email Brian Van Ochten and Howie Beardsley a message of appreciation for their coverage and I would encourage you to do the same.
bvanochten@grpress.com
hbeardsley@grpress.com
They experienced a great rivalry game last night, and I think it would be equally impressive for us to show some appreciation, especially since they probably get more "hate" mail than "fan" mail.
Just a thought, do with it as you will.

[wiz]

Time to stop looking back and start looking forward.  The rivalry is fun but it's over.  Calvin swept Hope this year and that is now history.  There are more games to be played and more meaningful games.  On Saturday, Calvin needs to be concerned about a greater challenge and that is playing on the home court of the only MIAA team to defeat the Knights this year.  Hopefully, full attention has been turned to that game, starting today.  There is also a league tournament looming not to far in the future and a chance for any of the MIAA teams to earn a right to the NCAA tournament.  I've said it every year on this site and I'll say it again, the only games that really get you any place are the ones in the league tournament.  The only sure way for one of our league teams to advance.  It's starting to look like that game will take place at the awesome new VanNoord Arena.  Both Hope and Calvin have great facilities and belittling one or the other doesn no good.  Our league should be proud of what we have here.  

Four good games coming up on Saturday.  I don't see any of them as a gimme for anybody.

[sac]

FDF:  Perhaps I should have said, IMHO for Hope not to finish at the top of the MIAA will be due to either injures or the team and coaches self destructing.   Dreaming of Hope self destructing are about as worthwhile as dreaming of Calvin .................................. 

Looking at the stats for Hope ytd one sees that Mr. Snikkers played 36 minutes in 7 games.  As tough as it might be for this young man personally to endure the fact he will be sitting out another semester it realisticaly looks to have little impact overall on Hope's varsity.  Based on minutes played per game so far it strikes me that GVW has pretty much decided the horses he is going to ride into the MIAA season.  Injuries are the one unkown, but with Hope's stockpile of talent I, for one, am not going to sell Hope short.

HC;  This has been a bit painful to listen to, and watch the stats.  I just could not believe the shooting % that C. was putting up, and maintaining.  I think the key was getting Reimink in foul trouble early.  Without him in there Hope just isn't the same team. I still think the new guys have loads of talent, but lack the experience to jsut go out there and take over the game.

FDF:  You shouldn't be so hard on your guys.  Hope did a decent job against Kingshott and CU inside the other night.  Granted they did not do as well against L & L on Sat., but considering how new to Hope many of your players are it takes time to get the defense where one wants it.  I think Hope, and Calvin for that matter are going to need to play perfect ball to have a shot against Wheaton.
I definitely agree Hope has the potential to be lethal come the end of Feb. 13-1 is possible, but 12-2 is more realistic for Hope in the MIAA.  Are you doing the pick board this year?

Sac?  Is it just me or is this kid Bunn starting to sound alot like a Hope guard whose name started with H??

Shucks you've been our best supporter Realist.

[hope#1]

Great game to watch last night!  Like SAC I was up in the second level behind the Hope students and also had a difficult time hearing.  At my age, maybe that's not all bad.  Anyone else think that the player points on the scoreboard were a bit blurry?  I asked a younger person in our section if he thought it was blurry also and he agreed.  In any event, the new facility is beautiful and I'm sure a few of the small problems they've experienced will be sorted out.

In looking at the box score, the extra minutes played by the Hope starters had to hurt a bit down the stretch, especially on defense.  I for one do think that Hope has some solid players on the bench and getting them in to spell the starters could help in crunch time and certainly help with a more cohesive team over the entire season.  Congrats to both teams for a great game and I'm hoping for another rematch in the tourney.

[realist]

My goodness.  Way back on Nov. 29th, I was probably the first person to realize how good Mr. Bunn would be.    
I am almost as disappointed as you must be that Hope has not lived up to my expectations on 12-2.  
In the spring, summer, and fall of 07 we heard about "the fab 5" that were coming to Hope.  Just this past spring in 08, and on into the summer and fall many posts were devoted to how superiorGVW was in his recruiting efforts, and how sad KVS"s efforts were.  If you want to read the posts, go back, and read them all.  Hyped is a good word.
Is it my fault if I believed the line/hype Hope posters were putting out?
In my defense I will add that no less a group of basketball experts than the MIAA coaches themselves voted Hope a very, very, close second to Calvin in the preseason poll.  That will teach me to listen to anything the coaches might say.
As it relates to my post on 12-22-08 I will refrain from responding.  Instead everyone can draw they own conclusions.
Hope's 3 conference defeats are by a total of 5 points, so I don't really think that my optimism for Hope was that far off.

[sac]

My goodness.  Way back on Nov. 29th, I was probably the first person to realize how good Mr. Bunn would be.    I assume GVW is also surprised as it took him some time to start Mr. Bunn.

In the spring, summer, and fall of 07 we heard about "the fab 5" that were coming to Hope.  Just this past spring in 08, and on into the summer and fall many posts were devoted to how superiorGVW was in his recruiting efforts, and how sad KVS"s efforts were.

Bunn has started every game for Hope this year.

I certainly don't recall any conversation about a "Fab 5" especially since only 4 Freshman made the varsity in '08............and I think if you recall I did my best to temper those expectations............and that team still made it to Salem.   So warranted hype?

[AndersDY]

It's been rare for me to be on the board this year so I did manage to keep my fingers quiet last night; I didn't want to finally chime in with my frustration last night having just watched Hope collect second half fouls. I'm still curious to see the fast break block in a replay (are there not yet any YouTubes of anything from the game to be linked?) but the officials' performance has been pretty well rehashed by now.

For a different topic, I thought I recalled hearing the capacity in the new arena was supposed to go up well over 5000 seats. Did I imagine that figure or were plans revised at some point? I said to someone last night, even before the attendance guessing game, that it didn't look to me that this arena had any more seats than the old setup. That 4600ish number is in fact only a little bit larger than the old court, correct? (This is to say nothing of the excellent upgrade in terms of quality, I was just curious about what I had been expecting as far as the size.) 

[miaafan55]

The Scoreboard: After the highlights reel was played Calvin's student section chanted, "You can't do that!" I don't think I really care. The scoreboard couldn't do much else than that apparently.

The New Arena: Walking into VanNoord Arena I was impressed by the pool, fitness room and climbing wall. The basketball section however was a different story. It is so frickin' boring. The only way I would be able to describe it as "awesome" is if I were describing it as a grain silo or a poll barn. Lots of concrete and cinder blocks. It as if Calvin was acting like our current congress and spent the money extremely poorly. There is no creativity to the basketball stadium. At least it has more seats though, right? Quite a few of which I noticed to be empty. A sellout crowd apparently does not equal a packed house.

[/quote]

First off Caleb = Clutch
Reimink = Choke

Second off, I have noticed Hope fans criticizing Van Noord saying it is boring. I believe they are just jealous of a few things such as: Calvin's scoreboard is in color, they have two huge screens which when they work next year will be awesome, it has a luxury box, it holds more people and is able to have concerts such as Lupe Fiasco this spring, oh yeah and I almost forgot it has two Men's Basketball National Championship banners. Yep just jealous.

[bulldogalum]

First off Caleb = Clutch
Reimink = Choke

Second off, I have noticed Hope fans criticizing Van Noord saying it is boring. I believe they are just jealous of a few things such as: Calvin's scoreboard is in color, they have two huge screens which when they work next year will be awesome, it has a luxury box, it holds more people and is able to have concerts such as Lupe Fiasco this spring, oh yeah and I almost forgot it has two Men's Basketball National Championship banners. Yep just jealous.

Classy

[sac]

Second off, I have noticed Hope fans criticizing Van Noord saying it is boring. I believe they are just jealous of a few things such as: Calvin's scoreboard is in color, they have two huge screens which when they work next year will be awesome, it has a luxury box, it holds more people and is able to have concerts such as Lupe Fiasco this spring, oh yeah and I almost forgot it has two Men's Basketball National Championship banners. Yep just jealous.

I'm going to step in here and just ask the Hope contingent not to comment on the arena.  There is nothing you can say that will be taken the right way.  Both schools have great venues to play in and I'm sure both sides feel very proud of their Arena's.

This is just a lose/lose situation here, I think most of the Calvin supporters have covered their own criticisms throughout the year in detail and I think thats enough.  There were things I liked, things I didn't.......there's just nothing I could tell you that you wouldn't take as me looking through Orange and Blue glasses just like there's nothing you could tell me that wouldn't make me think you were looking through Maroon and Gold glasses about DeVos.

To be honest any criticism's I had took a back seat once the game started and that was the real reason all of us were there anyway.




but I do have to say to miaafan55, if you think Lupe Fiasco is going to sway my decision on whether I like Van Noord or not you have obviously not seen my CD collection.........and the mere fact that in this digital age I still have a CD collection should tell you something.

[NW Hope Fan]

Reimink scores more while Mantel has the edge in rebounding.

Reimink also plays more minutes.  If you went by points per minute, or points per 40 minutes, that gap will close some.

Sure.  Per 40 min stats are fun to calculate.  I'll take the guy that actually plays the minutes over one who boasts the allure of impressive production in limited minutes.

I don't think the players (either Reimink or Mantel) are campaigning for themselves for MVP OR boasting about anything. And I wouldn't call 25 minutes/game "limited."

Where is your wine mom??? I didn't think you had buttons??? 

[CalvinChelseaMom]

Reimink scores more while Mantel has the edge in rebounding.

Reimink also plays more minutes.  If you went by points per minute, or points per 40 minutes, that gap will close some.

Sure.  Per 40 min stats are fun to calculate.  I'll take the guy that actually plays the minutes over one who boasts the allure of impressive production in limited minutes.

I don't think the players (either Reimink or Mantel) are campaigning for themselves for MVP OR boasting about anything. And I wouldn't call 25 minutes/game "limited."

Where is your wine mom??? I didn't think you had buttons??? 

Thus the "disappearing act" last season. Good luck everyone!

[dumezrules]

First off Caleb = Clutch
Reimink = Choke


[/quote]
If Calvin didnt have Veldhouse and Hope didnt have Reimink...who wins?

Reimink's teams...9-5 vs Caleb's teams....I also think Caleb has better players with him (this year) ...

[Galahad]

Second off, I have noticed Hope fans criticizing Van Noord saying it is boring. I believe they are just jealous of a few things such as: Calvin's scoreboard is in color, they have two huge screens which when they work next year will be awesome, it has a luxury box, it holds more people and is able to have concerts such as Lupe Fiasco this spring, oh yeah and I almost forgot it has two Men's Basketball National Championship banners. Yep just jealous.

I'm going to step in here and just ask the Hope contingent not to comment on the arena.  There is nothing you can say that will be taken the right way.  Both schools have great venues to play in and I'm sure both sides feel very proud of their Arena's.

This is just a lose/lose situation here, I think most of the Calvin supporters have covered their own criticisms throughout the year in detail and I think thats enough.  There were things I liked, things I didn't.......there's just nothing I could tell you that you wouldn't take as me looking through Orange and Blue glasses just like there's nothing you could tell me that wouldn't make me think you were looking through Maroon and Gold glasses about DeVos.

To be honest any criticism's I had took a back seat once the game started and that was the real reason all of us were there anyway.

I would agree with sac, both are amazing facilities and were designed/built for the needs of their respective schools.   If you saw the pre-game show on WGVU, they spent some time on the Spoelhof complex and the reason for its design (including duplicating the style/feel of the old Knollcrest fieldhouse).  I know much time was spent in looking at other facilities and evaluating the pros and cons.  Hope was very gracious in discussing the DeVos and their experiences of its positives and negatives.  Unfortunately one building/gym/fieldhouse/arena can't be all things to all people so we will all have to suffer with our multi-million dollar home courts.

[dumezrules]

Second off, I have noticed Hope fans criticizing Van Noord saying it is boring. I believe they are just jealous of a few things such as: Calvin's scoreboard is in color, they have two huge screens which when they work next year will be awesome, it has a luxury box, it holds more people and is able to have concerts such as Lupe Fiasco this spring, oh yeah and I almost forgot it has two Men's Basketball National Championship banners. Yep just jealous.

I would think most fans (no matter where from) think the new arena is quite awesome and a better viewing opp. than the old one.  The pregame intro with Tradition doesnt Graduate is sweet no matter who you like...(and I root against Calvin alot!)

CalvinChelseaMom.....dont let idiots get to you....part of having your son be a great part of a great rivalry is that people who are jealous will say stupid things behind the cloak of secrecy...he is a great player that all Hope fans would have loved to see on their team right now....
I'm going to step in here and just ask the Hope contingent not to comment on the arena.  There is nothing you can say that will be taken the right way.  Both schools have great venues to play in and I'm sure both sides feel very proud of their Arena's.

This is just a lose/lose situation here, I think most of the Calvin supporters have covered their own criticisms throughout the year in detail and I think thats enough.  There were things I liked, things I didn't.......there's just nothing I could tell you that you wouldn't take as me looking through Orange and Blue glasses just like there's nothing you could tell me that wouldn't make me think you were looking through Maroon and Gold glasses about DeVos.

To be honest any criticism's I had took a back seat once the game started and that was the real reason all of us were there anyway.

I would agree with sac, both are amazing facilities and were designed/built for the needs of their respective schools.   If you saw the pre-game show on WGVU, they spent some time on the Spoelhof complex and the reason for its design (including duplicating the style/feel of the old Knollcrest fieldhouse).  I know much time was spent in looking at other facilities and evaluating the pros and cons.  Hope was very gracious in discussing the DeVos and their experiences of its positives and negatives.  Unfortunately one building/gym/fieldhouse/arena can't be all things to all people so we will all have to suffer with our multi-million dollar home courts.