MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Not sure about the Saturday game always being first, but the watch parties are always for the Saturday game. 

It really is going to be quite strange with them meeting so early.  Hope will still be on Christmas break, and Calvin resumes classes that day.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Albion's roster is up - looks like all of the underclassmen from last year's varsity are on the roster, plus 2 juniors from last years jv and 4 freshman

http://www2.albion.edu/sports/mens-sports/basketball/roster

[sac]

Hope/Calvin I

99 Saturday
00 Saturday
01 ? ?
02 Saturday
03 Saturday
04 Wednesday
05 Wednesday
06 Saturday
07 Saturday
08 Saturday
09 Saturday
10 Wednesday

"Always" on Saturday is not quite accurate, but it sure is the most prevelent.

I think the MIAA has used a two year schedule and just flips the locations the next season.  This might just be part of the normal rotation, but this is certainly the earliest Hope/Calvin have ever met in the MIAA season.

[GoKnights68]

Hope/Calvin I

99 Saturday
00 Saturday
01 ? ?
02 Saturday
03 Saturday
04 Wednesday
05 Wednesday
06 Saturday
07 Saturday
08 Saturday
09 Saturday
10 Wednesday

"Always" on Saturday is not quite accurate, but it sure is the most prevelent.

I think the MIAA has used a two year schedule and just flips the locations the next season.  This might just be part of the normal rotation, but this is certainly the earliest Hope/Calvin have ever met in the MIAA season.

I am pretty sure the first '05 Calvin vs Hope was scheduled on a Saturday, and then played on a Monday because of a snow-storm.  I know the second Calvin vs Hope game that year was scheduled on a Wednesday because I remember Hope edging out Calvin in their final Calvin/Hope game at the Civic.



But I do now know why Hope gets two Saturday games in a row.  It is because Calvin got two Saturday games in a row in 2007 and 2008, as I think Calvin wanted their Calvin/Hope game to be in the day in 2008 because of the construction causing difficult parking.

[devossed]

Speaking of the conversation on JV players, here's an interesting bit...So it would seem that there's another omission from the Dutch roster: one of their much publicized incoming recruits was Spencer Jennings (of Bowser's Midland Dow HS). The word is that he decided not to play this year after being selected for Hope's JV team, and wanted to go somewhere else where he could play varsity right away. (I do remember Albion was the other 'finalist' for his services, and wonder if they would come into the picture again?)

Now at first I was appalled to hear this, and thought how egotistical for someone to make a decision like this, and not feel like they had to 'earn it' or persevere through adversity if that's not the place they saw themselves.

But then I got to thinking from the player's perspective...what one could be thinking about when making that decision (that's outside the realm of ego). I wonder what questions of fairness someone could ponder, or what one's sense of self-worth (that other people don't see) is prominent in their mind?

What do the rest of the posters on this board think? How hard a decision would this be for you? Is there any merit in 'sticking it out' -- or does the 'shoe fitting' philosophy seem like a better course?

[oldknight]

Speaking of the conversation on JV players, here's an interesting bit...So it would seem that there's another omission from the Dutch roster: one of their much publicized incoming recruits was Spencer Jennings (of Bowser's Midland Dow HS). The word is that he decided not to play this year after being selected for Hope's JV team, and wanted to go somewhere else where he could play varsity right away. (I do remember Albion was the other 'finalist' for his services, and wonder if they would come into the picture again?)

Now at first I was appalled to hear this, and thought how egotistical for someone to make a decision like this, and not feel like they had to 'earn it' or persevere through adversity if that's not the place they saw themselves.

But then I got to thinking from the player's perspective...what one could be thinking about when making that decision (that's outside the realm of ego). I wonder what questions of fairness someone could ponder, or what one's sense of self-worth (that other people don't see) is prominent in their mind?

What do the rest of the posters on this board think? How hard a decision would this be for you? Is there any merit in 'sticking it out' -- or does the 'shoe fitting' philosophy seem like a better course?

Since we're traveling in the realm of rumor and conjecture, I wouldn't be too harsh on the young man and his supposed "egotistical" reasons for leaving Hope and heading elsewhere. I do think there are several possible reasons he might have in deciding that this (wooden) shoe doesn't fit his college career.

First off, he decided to attend a school that is a bit overstocked at the guard spots. Jennings is a 5'11" point guard and is limited to one position. Currently Hope's point guard is Krombeen and I'm judging that the position is his until someone comes along and proves he's better. Since Krombeen is a sophomore, Jennings won't be a starter before his senior year unless he can prove he's the better option at the 1. As a Midland Dow grad, Jennings no doubt knows Kelvin Carter from Midland High and Carter apparently couldn't convince Glenn that Kelvin deserves to be the team quarterback. Jennings presumably knows Carter couldn't win the point position from Krombeen and if Jennings respects Carter's talents . . . well it doesn't take much to connect those dots does it? It could well be that Jennings was uncertain of his choice all along and the fact that he was relegated to the JV team may spur him to try one of his other choices. If so, now is the time, before he burns a year of eligibility.

[Pat Coleman]

it  dose  not make a difference about the rankings   it is way to early to worry about them

Very very true. Many (most) teams didn't even have rosters released before ballots were due.

Just so you know, even though a school doesn't have its roster posted doesn't mean that our voters don't have the information. We solicited preseason info from about 70 schools and all but about five responded.

[devossed]

Speaking of the conversation on JV players, here's an interesting bit...So it would seem that there's another omission from the Dutch roster: one of their much publicized incoming recruits was Spencer Jennings (of Bowser's Midland Dow HS). The word is that he decided not to play this year after being selected for Hope's JV team, and wanted to go somewhere else where he could play varsity right away. (I do remember Albion was the other 'finalist' for his services, and wonder if they would come into the picture again?)

Now at first I was appalled to hear this, and thought how egotistical for someone to make a decision like this, and not feel like they had to 'earn it' or persevere through adversity if that's not the place they saw themselves.

But then I got to thinking from the player's perspective...what one could be thinking about when making that decision (that's outside the realm of ego). I wonder what questions of fairness someone could ponder, or what one's sense of self-worth (that other people don't see) is prominent in their mind?

What do the rest of the posters on this board think? How hard a decision would this be for you? Is there any merit in 'sticking it out' -- or does the 'shoe fitting' philosophy seem like a better course?

Since we're traveling in the realm of rumor and conjecture, I wouldn't be too harsh on the young man and his supposed "egotistical" reasons for leaving Hope and heading elsewhere. I do think there are several possible reasons he might have in deciding that this (wooden) shoe doesn't fit his college career.

First off, he decided to attend a school that is a bit overstocked at the guard spots. Jennings is a 5'11" point guard and is limited to one position. Currently Hope's point guard is Krombeen and I'm judging that the position is his until someone comes along and proves he's better. Since Krombeen is a sophomore, Jennings won't be a starter before his senior year unless he can prove he's the better option at the 1. As a Midland Dow grad, Jennings no doubt knows Kelvin Carter from Midland High and Carter apparently couldn't convince Glenn that Kelvin deserves to be the team quarterback. Jennings presumably knows Carter couldn't win the point position from Krombeen and if Jennings respects Carter's talents . . . well it doesn't take much to connect those dots does it? It could well be that Jennings was uncertain of his choice all along and the fact that he was relegated to the JV team may spur him to try one of his other choices. If so, now is the time, before he burns a year of eligibility.

Old Knight-
You make interesting points, except for 3 things: 1) I think you missed where I said 'at first' I looked at it from that angle, but 'then' I tried to look at it from his perspective - out of fairness to him. I agree that now is a better time than the end of the year, but the timing of it can come across as a little 'pouting'.

2) Jennings is a 2, and was solely looked at by Hope to play the 2 because they weren't convinced he was comfortable at the 1 - where there's Bunn, Tanis, Mysliwiec, Neil, Ross, etc. ahead of him. Since he never even tried out, I don't know if Carter would have anything to do with that decision.

3) I'm looking for everybody else's opinion after I presented both sides of it. And looking for discussion and reasons as to what other posters would do (as you tried to present), no matter which choice it was.

[KnightSlappy]

Speaking of the conversation on JV players, here's an interesting bit...So it would seem that there's another omission from the Dutch roster: one of their much publicized incoming recruits was Spencer Jennings (of Bowser's Midland Dow HS). The word is that he decided not to play this year after being selected for Hope's JV team, and wanted to go somewhere else where he could play varsity right away. (I do remember Albion was the other 'finalist' for his services, and wonder if they would come into the picture again?)

Now at first I was appalled to hear this, and thought how egotistical for someone to make a decision like this, and not feel like they had to 'earn it' or persevere through adversity if that's not the place they saw themselves.

But then I got to thinking from the player's perspective...what one could be thinking about when making that decision (that's outside the realm of ego). I wonder what questions of fairness someone could ponder, or what one's sense of self-worth (that other people don't see) is prominent in their mind?

What do the rest of the posters on this board think? How hard a decision would this be for you? Is there any merit in 'sticking it out' -- or does the 'shoe fitting' philosophy seem like a better course?

Since we're traveling in the realm of rumor and conjecture, I wouldn't be too harsh on the young man and his supposed "egotistical" reasons for leaving Hope and heading elsewhere. I do think there are several possible reasons he might have in deciding that this (wooden) shoe doesn't fit his college career.

First off, he decided to attend a school that is a bit overstocked at the guard spots. Jennings is a 5'11" point guard and is limited to one position. Currently Hope's point guard is Krombeen and I'm judging that the position is his until someone comes along and proves he's better. Since Krombeen is a sophomore, Jennings won't be a starter before his senior year unless he can prove he's the better option at the 1. As a Midland Dow grad, Jennings no doubt knows Kelvin Carter from Midland High and Carter apparently couldn't convince Glenn that Kelvin deserves to be the team quarterback. Jennings presumably knows Carter couldn't win the point position from Krombeen and if Jennings respects Carter's talents . . . well it doesn't take much to connect those dots does it? It could well be that Jennings was uncertain of his choice all along and the fact that he was relegated to the JV team may spur him to try one of his other choices. If so, now is the time, before he burns a year of eligibility.

Old Knight-
You make interesting points, except for 3 things: 1) I think you missed where I said 'at first' I looked at it from that angle, but 'then' I tried to look at it from his perspective - out of fairness to him. I agree that now is a better time than the end of the year, but the timing of it can come across as a little 'pouting'.

2) Jennings is a 2, and was solely looked at by Hope to play the 2 because they weren't convinced he was comfortable at the 1 - where there's Bunn, Tanis, Mysliwiec, Neil, Ross, etc. ahead of him. Since he never even tried out, I don't know if Carter would have anything to do with that decision.

3) I'm looking for everybody else's opinion after I presented both sides of it. And looking for discussion and reasons as to what other posters would do (as you tried to present), no matter which choice it was.

We often tout D3 as the level where true student athletes play for the love of the game. If Spencer truly loves the game he may simply want to play at the highest level possible, and he probably feels that JV ball isn't that. That's not necessarily egotistical (as you both mentioned), it could be confidence and passion. Some players decide that staying on JV and getting a shot next year is best for them, and others simply want to play wherever that may be.

Surely we wouldn't have faulted him for choosing another MIAA school originally, and so I don't fault him for wanting to play for another school now. He tried to play for one of the best, and the situation didn't work out for him.

[CalvinChelseaMom]

We often tout D3 as the level where true student athletes play for the love of the game. If Spencer truly loves the game he may simply want to play at the highest level possible, and he probably feels that JV ball isn't that. That's not necessarily egotistical (as you both mentioned), it could be confidence and passion. Some players decide that staying on JV and getting a shot next year is best for them, and others simply want to play wherever that may be.

Surely we wouldn't have faulted him for choosing another MIAA school originally, and so I don't fault him for wanting to play for another school now. He tried to play for one of the best, and the situation didn't work out for him.

Well said, KnightSlappy. I agree.

[Knight In The Stan]

Speaking of the conversation on JV players, here's an interesting bit...So it would seem that there's another omission from the Dutch roster: one of their much publicized incoming recruits was Spencer Jennings (of Bowser's Midland Dow HS). The word is that he decided not to play this year after being selected for Hope's JV team, and wanted to go somewhere else where he could play varsity right away. (I do remember Albion was the other 'finalist' for his services, and wonder if they would come into the picture again?)

Now at first I was appalled to hear this, and thought how egotistical for someone to make a decision like this, and not feel like they had to 'earn it' or persevere through adversity if that's not the place they saw themselves.

But then I got to thinking from the player's perspective...what one could be thinking about when making that decision (that's outside the realm of ego). I wonder what questions of fairness someone could ponder, or what one's sense of self-worth (that other people don't see) is prominent in their mind?

What do the rest of the posters on this board think? How hard a decision would this be for you? Is there any merit in 'sticking it out' -- or does the 'shoe fitting' philosophy seem like a better course?

Lets not forget the other angle fromt the players point of view: We will never know what Hope coaches told him. They COULD have promised him the moon for all we know. He very well could have come into the situation thinking that he was going to start on varsity based upon what he was "promised." Lots of recruiters today will tell a recruit whatever they want to hear to get them to come to their school, or simply to not have them to go a competitor. Good luck to him.

[Pat Coleman]

Lots of recruiters today will tell a recruit whatever they want to hear to get them to come to their school, or simply to not have them to go a competitor.

I just thought it seemed important to highlight this sentence and remind people that yes, this does happen all over the place and shouldn't be considered unique to any particular instance that may or may not be discussed here. 

[goodknight]

Lots of recruiters today will tell a recruit whatever they want to hear to get them to come to their school, or simply to not have them to go a competitor.

I just thought it seemed important to highlight this sentence and remind people that yes, this does happen all over the place and shouldn't be considered unique to any particular instance that may or may not be discussed here. 

A sage and timely interjection, Pat.

[realist]

Lots of recruiters today will tell a recruit whatever they want to hear to get them to come to their school, or simply to not have them to go a competitor.

I just thought it seemed important to highlight this sentence and remind people that yes, this does happen all over the place and shouldn't be considered unique to any particular instance that may or may not be discussed here. 

It would be foolish to argue this doesn't happen.  IMHO it would be foolish for a coach to make promises they know they can't keep to very many recruits, and to have it as a standing policy would only serve to churn students and players.  It might give a school or coach a short term advantage, but would seem to be counter productive long term.  Having a player drop off the roster or out of your school only makes everyone ask "what the h..."  

[Flying Dutch Fan]

We will never know what Hope coaches told him.

And I would like to point out that this statement is also true - and IMHO we should simply leave it at that - unless someone has actual facts to discuss.