MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Here's the last 2 minutes play by play...........

02:17  CALVINM  GOOD! 3 PTR by Matt Veltema CALVINM 70 - HOPEM 70 Tied
  ASSIST by Danny Rodts
01:53  HOPEM  GOOD! 3 PTR by Chris Nelis HOPEM 73 - CALVINM 70 (HOPEM by 3)
  ASSIST by Will Bowser
01:13  CALVINM  FOUL by John Mantel
01:13  CALVINM  TURNOVR by John Mantel
00:46  HOPEM  TIMEOUT TEAM 
00:40  HOPEM  MISSED 3 PTR by David Krombeen
  REBOUND (OFF) by Will Bowser
00:25  CALVINM  FOUL by Tom Snikkers
00:25  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by Peter Bunn HOPEM 74 - CALVINM 70 (HOPEM by 4)
00:25  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by Peter Bunn HOPEM 75 - CALVINM 70 (HOPEM by 5)
00:25  HOPEM  TIMEOUT TEAM 
00:25  CALVINM  MISSED JUMPER by Tom Snikkers
  REBOUND (DEF) by David Krombeen
00:20  CALVINM  FOUL by Tom Snikkers
00:20  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by David Krombeen HOPEM 76 - CALVINM 70 (HOPEM by 6)
00:20  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by David Krombeen HOPEM 77 - CALVINM 70 (HOPEM by 7)
00:15  CALVINM  TIMEOUT TEAM 
00:15  CALVINM  GOOD! 3 PTR by Danny Rodts HOPEM 77 - CALVINM 73 (HOPEM by 4)
  ASSIST by Matt Veltema
00:08  CALVINM  FOUL by Trent Salo
00:08  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by David Krombeen HOPEM 78 - CALVINM 73 (HOPEM by 5)
00:08  HOPEM  GOOD! FT SHOT by David Krombeen HOPEM 79 - CALVINM 73 (HOPEM by 6)
00:06  HOPEM  FOUL by David Krombeen
00:03  HOPEM  FOUL by Peter Bunn
00:01  CALVINM  GOOD! FT SHOT by Danny Rodts HOPEM 79 - CALVINM 74 (HOPEM by 5)
00:01  CALVINM  GOOD! FT SHOT by Danny Rodts HOPEM 79 - CALVINM 75 (HOPEM by 4)
00:01  CALVINM  GOOD! FT SHOT by Danny Rodts HOPEM 79 - CALVINM 76 (HOPEM by 3)
00:01  CALVINM  TIMEOUT TEAM 
00:01  CALVINM  MISSED 3 PTR by Danny Rodts
  REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)

[HopeConvert]

1. Someone want to explain to me why KVS had Veltema inbounding the ball with one second left?
2. Someone want to explain to me how a ball can be inbounded, caught, knocked out of someone's hands, knocked up in the air again, caught, and a time-out called all in a second-and-a-half?
3. Someone want to explain to me how Calvin actually had a chance to tie that game?

[AlwaysHope]

Major mistake by Bunn fouling the 3 point shooter with a few seconds left.  Another major mistake on the inbounds pass.

I was not at the game, but why did the Calvin bench call timeout with basically one (?) second on the clock.  It takes time to do that.  Why not let the game flow instead of giving Hope the time to reset their defenses after the turnover?  But I am basing my comments on the radio broadcast.  What did you see in person?

Still can't believe that a very young and inexperienced Hope team beat Mantel, Veltema, and the rest of the taller, more experienced Calvin team at Calvin.  It seems like Mantel is not dominating like I thought he would (and which can still happen), or is there more to it than that?  Plus Hope is playing without Venema.  Obviously, the season is still very young.

Looking for some on site comments...

[pointlem]

1. Someone want to explain to me why KVS had Veltema inbounding the ball with one second left?

HopeConvert, I wondered the same thing (and as a Hope fan was delighted to see Veltema standing out of bounds with one second to go and no chance to shoot).  Perhaps the answer is the same as why on the last two Hope inbounds plays, with a immediate foul sure to come, Peter Bunn was inbounding the ball instead of available to catch it.

And what a game he and Chris Nelis and Danny Rodts all had . . . matter of fact, what a great game! (I said the same last year after Hope's 1 and 2 point losses.)

[GoKnights68]

I saw the whole game.  Calvin played awful in the first half, while Hope played with more intensity.  Calvin turned the ball over too many times.  Calvin's defense didn't play well either in the first half, but it improved in the second half, although Hope got some key offensive rebounds at the end of the game.  Calvin needs to learn how to box out better.  Bunn was huge for Hope in the second half offensively, as he was lights-out shooting.  Nelis hit a dagger 3 pointer right after Veltema tied the game up for the first time since the the beginning of the game.   After a rough night vs Cornerstone, Rodts came out shooting lights out.  Frankly, I am surprised that Hope only won by 3 points after watching the first half.  Props to Calvin for not ever giving up, and props to Hope for holding on to the victory after Calvin had all the momentum in the last 8 minutes of the game.


As for the eventful last few seconds, if KVS would have not called timeout, Rodts shot would NOT have counted as the buzzer clearly went off before it left his hands, so don't be mad at KVS.  Although, as someone brought it up, I don't know why Veltema was taking the ball out in that last second.


2. Someone want to explain to me how a ball can be inbounded, caught, knocked out of someone's hands, knocked up in the air again, caught, and a time-out called all in a second-and-a-half?

I am pretty sure there was 2.5 seconds left when Bunn fouled Rodts.  Who knows exactly how much time was left when KVS called timeout because everyone was paying attention to the players on the court.


Calvin will be alright this year, I think, but they need to learn how to protect the ball offensively and move their feet better on defense.    And I think I say this every season...guard the perimeter better and not leave players wide-open that can easily drain the 3.

[HopeConvert]

Point: I was also perplexed as to why you would have your best free-throw shooter inbounding in a must-foul situation.

Bunn clearly fouled Rodts on that three-point attempt. Rodts nearly as clearly walked just prior to shooting. Bad all the way around. Yes, there was 2.5 seconds left when Hope inbounded. No way that all took only a second-and-a-half for Calvin to get control and call a timeout. Methinks suspect time keeping. Heck of a shot by Rodts, who had a very good game, to make that shot, even though it was definitely after the buzzer.

I was also impressed with Snikkers, who promises to have quite a career at Calvin. Veltema scares you every time he shoots the ball. Mantel backed people down into the blocks at will - not sure why they didn't pound the ball inside with him more often.

A very good victory for Hope. I wasn't sure what to expect, and onceHpoe got out to the huge lead I was surprised the way Calvin came back.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

2. Someone want to explain to me how a ball can be inbounded, caught, knocked out of someone's hands, knocked up in the air again, caught, and a time-out called all in a second-and-a-half?

Not sure which side it favored when you net it all out, but the officiating was wildly inconsistent for the second night in a row.  That's the answer to your question.

Some thoughts.....
--Krombeen/Bunn is a scary backcourt duo.  Bunn had 19 points on only 10 shots--that is efficiency--but also quietly added 7 boards with no turnovers.  Great line tonight.  Krombeen has some of the best court sense I've seen in this league.
--I think Nelis/Snuggerud is going to be a better combo than expected. 
--The Danny Rodts we saw tonight is the one I imagined when considering him my sleeper league MVP this year. 
--How wonderful it was to see John Mantel go 6-6 from the line, with beautiful rotation each time.  Most were nothing but net.  Also took it to the rack strong a little more than in the previous games.
--Notice who led the Knights in minutes?  Sixth man Tom Snikkers.  He doesn't play like a freshman.  Very complete and mature player and has obviously earned KVS's confidence.   
--Mysliwiec seems like the equivalent for Hope. 
--Someone made a comment about KVS's hyperactive substitution pattern last night.  I think it calmed down a bit today and the team is developing a bit more of a rotation. 
--I see two pretty evenly matched teams in Hope and Calvin.  Here's to another three (hopefully) great games this season. 
--I'm 0-4 (including the Ferris St game) in games I attend this year.  But I'm still very optimistic on this team and their chances to repeat as regular season MIAA champs. 

[KnightSlappy]

No way that all took only a second-and-a-half for Calvin to get control and call a timeout. Methinks suspect time keeping.

The time left was not determined by the timekeepers.

The clock initially ran all the way down when Danny put in the three pointer (which was clearly after the horn). One officially immediately signaled no basket, and everyone thought the game was over. Another official approached the others to let them know that Calvin had requested a timeout, which they then granted and told the scorers table to add 1 second to the expired clock.

2. Someone want to explain to me how a ball can be inbounded, caught, knocked out of someone's hands, knocked up in the air again, caught, and a time-out called all in a second-and-a-half?

Well, inbounding doesn't take any time--the clock doesn't start until the ball is touched. I don't think the ball was ever caught. It was tipped into the air by what seemed to me like 17 players at once, and a Calvin player was able to come up with it. My guess is that KVS was yelling for a timeout once the ball was tipped into the air and it was "granted" as soon as the player (Snikkers?) caught it.

Still can't believe that a very young and inexperienced Hope team beat Mantel, Veltema, and the rest of the taller, more experienced Calvin team at Calvin.

No one has yet convinced me that Hope is that much more inexperienced than Calvin.

Calvin has Mantel, Veltema, Salo, and Rodts, and Hope has Bowser, Tanis, Bunn, Krombeen, and Jungling.

[oldknight]

Let me tag along on some thoughts already shared on this board.

Assuming KVS was screaming for a timeout the moment it appeared the Knights might gain possession after Hope inbounded, I think putting one second on the board was about right. I just watched WOOD-TV's replay of that series and Calvin regained possession rather quickly after the ball was tipped by one Calvin defender directly to Snikkers.

The two teams are trying to recover from last year's losses that are different and similar at the same time. Hope has their entire backcourt returning ( including subs) plus Bowser, but is trying to work in two new starters in the front court. Calvin lost their starting backcourt but has a veteran front line. Both teams are struggling to find out which of their players will be the key subs and working to establish a rhythm. Based on what I observed this weekend, Hope's situation seems a bit more settled but only by comparison. Each team has a lot of work ahead before being considered a very good team. Some of Calvin's players are showing individual improvement but the team improvement is well behind.

I was impressed with how game ready Bunn appeared to be. If I hadn't been told he was recovering from a broken arm I would never have guessed. Krombeen is certainly a nice player and I hope he never develops a consistent outside shot. Nelis hit the biggest shot of the game and when I saw him play once this summer I judged he was ready to become a player of importance in Hope's front court. Sadly, I wasn't disappointed. Chris is a solid, fundamentally sound hoopster.

From comments I have heard at the game and read on this board, it's clear Snikkers continues to impress. I can't say I'm surprised. Last year, he was a man among boys in the high school ranks--much like his sister was a woman among girls a couple of years earlier. It's rare that a someone who scores only 4 points in a game can be seen by pretty much all observers as an impact player but that's what he is. Tonight he had 4 assists and would have had a couple more if his teammates had been expecting his beautifully delivered passes. He combines strength, gracefulness and unselfishness in one package. I'm pretty sure KVS knows he has a gem. Tom wouldn't have played a game high 31 if Coach didn't.

Rodts recovered nicely from last night's poor performance and the warning that his starting spot was in jeopardy. He was Calvin's player of the game and Bunn simply couldn't guard Danny.

In the FWIW Department: I'm wondering if it might make sense to have Veltema come in off the bench like he has most of his career. Matt seems to play better when he doesn't start and its obvious that Snikkers has the game to be a starter right now.

[sac]

Cornerstone beat AQ by 2 to win the Hall of Fame classic.......

another score of note, since they appear on a couple MIAA schedules.  
Eastern Michigan 76 Davenport 66.  Davenport led by 6 with 3 min to go and lost.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Cornerstone beat AQ by 2 to win the Hall of Fame classic.......

another score of note, since they appear on a couple MIAA schedules.  
Eastern Michigan 76 Davenport 66.  Davenport led by 6 with 3 min to go and lost.

I thought that sac must surely have omitted the OT designation, but just confirmed that it is true that EMU outscored Davenport 16-0 in the last 3:26 of the game!  Which raises the obvious question - where the hell was EMU in the first 36:34 of the game?!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Random thoughts about last nights game

- Nelis was absolutely huge for Hope, scoring, rebounding, defending

- Loved the balanced scoring effort from the Hope starting 5

- Snuggerud seems to be fitting in nicely for the Dutchmen, and seemed more at ease than either previous game.  Gorgeous tip-in from him in the first half

- Nate King, Logan Neil, Josh Holwerda, Jared Mysliewic - some solid minutes off the bench

- Love that all the inexperienced players got those minutes in a Hope Calvin game

- A 17 point lead in the first half, and a barn burner at the end - isn't that the definition of a Hope Calvin game?

- Obvious KVS has tons of confidence in Snikkers - since Tom was the guy bringing the ball down the court during the final 2 minutes

[realist]

Quoting HC: "Mantel backed people down into the blocks at will - not sure why they didn't pound the ball inside with him more often."

IMO.  To know the answer all one need do is study the coaching pattern of KVS.  Continuing to try the same thing, and expecting a different outcome ..............................  

Compare how Elders uses Kingshoot to KVS, and Mantel.  Think for a minute what CU looks like with Mantel.

Pretty simple why Veltema is throwing the ball in.  His size, and the fact he sees the floor reasonably well combined with Rodts having the hot hand.
I would bet that GVW has had his guys practice the scenario where Veltema receives the inbounds pass, but not sure about this set up.

[fire3rain3]

Someone mentioned that Danny was on his way to playing out of a starting spot, however, after that last game I believe its clear that he can provide Calvin's most consistent offensive threat.

Also, I don't mind Snikkers coming in off the bench. He plays amazingly composed for a freshman, and whether or not he starts doesn't matter in my mind. What matters is the fact that he has the ball in his hands in the last 2 minutes of a close Rivalry game. KVS must have a lot of trust in him.

I don't think Mantel was dominant in the post as someone mentioned, however, I thought Peter Bunn could not guard Danny at times.

[devossed]

Cornerstone beat AQ by 2 to win the Hall of Fame classic.......

another score of note, since they appear on a couple MIAA schedules.  
Eastern Michigan 76 Davenport 66.  Davenport led by 6 with 3 min to go and lost.

I thought that sac must surely have omitted the OT designation, but just confirmed that it is true that EMU outscored Davenport 16-0 in the last 3:26 of the game!  Which raises the obvious question - where the hell was EMU in the first 36:34 of the game?!

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32692


4 blocks, 1 steal, and 1 def. rebound in the last minute....must be nice to have him coming off the bench but playing in crunchtime.

he's the snikkers of D-1 !!!