MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Next weeks games

Tuesday, December 8
Kalamazoo at Oberlin, Ohio, 7 p.m.

Wednesday, December 9
Trine at Dominican, Ill., 8 p.m.

Thursday, December 10
Olivet at Davenport, 7 p.m.
Aquinas at Calvin, 7:30 p.m.

Friday, December 11
Alma at Oberlin, Ohio, 7 p.m.
Hope hosts Holland Sentinel Tournament vs Purdue-North Central

Saturday, December 12
Hope hosts Holland Sentinel Tournament vs Marygrove or Ohio Dominican
Kalamazoo at Univ. of Chicago, 3 p.m.
Spring Arbor at Olivet, 3 p.m.
North Park, Ill. at Trine, 3 p.m.

correction, league stands 19-26

[Gregory Sager]

it appears that Calvin did an outstanding job of guarding Steve Djurickovic [...] The number of games in which he's had a negative a:to ratio (he turned over the ball four times tonight) in his Carthage career can be counted on one hand.

Wow, that must have been quite something and  I'm sorry I missesd it. Did he have a negative number of turnovers or of assists?

Y'know, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to count steals as negative turnovers. Then, as long as you get more steals than turnovers, you could actually have a negative a/to ratio.

Better still, if you got exactly the same number of steals as turnovers your a:to ratio would be infinite, and that's pretty hard to beat.

Brilliant!  +k

I gotta agree. That steals-negate-turnovers approach to a:to ratio is actually a pretty sound idea, DK.

It's gonna require some new symbology, though. Perhaps a:(to-s)?

(And now I'll stand by while everyone flames me for turning basketball into algebra. )

[Mr. Ypsi]

it appears that Calvin did an outstanding job of guarding Steve Djurickovic [...] The number of games in which he's had a negative a:to ratio (he turned over the ball four times tonight) in his Carthage career can be counted on one hand.

Wow, that must have been quite something and  I'm sorry I missesd it. Did he have a negative number of turnovers or of assists?

Y'know, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to count steals as negative turnovers. Then, as long as you get more steals than turnovers, you could actually have a negative a/to ratio.

Better still, if you got exactly the same number of steals as turnovers your a:to ratio would be infinite, and that's pretty hard to beat.

Brilliant!  +k

I gotta agree. That steals-negate-turnovers approach to a:to ratio is actually a pretty sound idea, DK.

It's gonna require some new symbology, though. Perhaps a:(to-s)?

(And now I'll stand by while everyone flames me for turning basketball into algebra. )

At least you included no derivatives.

Algebra I can handle (I've even taught it at the college level); besides, despite the look, that was basic arithmetic, not algebra.  It was calculus that convinced me not to become a mathematician!

[ScotsFan]

Algebra I can handle (I've even taught it at the college level); besides, despite the look, that was basic arithmetic, not algebra.  It was calculus that convinced me not to become a mathematician!

LOL!  +k for that! 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

it appears that Calvin did an outstanding job of guarding Steve Djurickovic [...] The number of games in which he's had a negative a:to ratio (he turned over the ball four times tonight) in his Carthage career can be counted on one hand.

Wow, that must have been quite something and  I'm sorry I missesd it. Did he have a negative number of turnovers or of assists?

Y'know, it wouldn't be entirely unreasonable to count steals as negative turnovers. Then, as long as you get more steals than turnovers, you could actually have a negative a/to ratio.

Better still, if you got exactly the same number of steals as turnovers your a:to ratio would be infinite, and that's pretty hard to beat.

Brilliant!  +k

I gotta agree. That steals-negate-turnovers approach to a:to ratio is actually a pretty sound idea, DK.

It's gonna require some new symbology, though. Perhaps a:(to-s)?

(And now I'll stand by while everyone flames me for turning basketball into algebra. )

So....  I did an A/(TO-S) for everyone in the league with 10 or more assists thus far.  Here is how they rank (I ranked a negative A/(TO-S) higher than an infinite one)

Player Name --- Assists --- Turnovers --- Steals --- A/(TO-S)
Chris Hutton ---     13     ---       5     ---       6     ---     -13.00
Andre Evans ---     22     ---     11     ---     11     ---     Infinity
Tom Snikkers --      11     ---     10     ---     10     ---     Infinity
Michael Staley -     33     ---     12     ---       5     ---        4.71
Dave Stasiak ---    16     ---     10     ---       6     ---        4.00
Kolin Kazen  ---     11     ---       6     ---       3     ---        3.67
Scott Jungling -     11     ---       3     ---       0     ---        3.67
Chris Farr     ---     13     ---     12     ---       8     ---        3.25
Deon Thompson      13     ---     13     ---       9     ---        3.25
Delano Collins -       25     ---     16     ---       8     ---       3.13
David Krombeen -    29     ---     16     ---       6     ---       2.90
AJ Williams    ---     21     ---     12     ---       2     ---       2.10
Tyler Stewart --     18     ---     17     ---       6     ---       1.64
Andre Bridges  -     13     ---     15     ---       7     ---       1.63
Jake Robinson -     11     ---     11     ---       4     ---       1.57
Jordan Redditt -     10     ---     15     ---       7     ---       1.25
Will Bowser   ---     11     ---     18     ---       9     ---       1.22

[Mr. Ypsi]

Good job, FDF.  +k

Now a possible monkeywrench.  I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Now a possible monkeywrench.   I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

And let me add a tamarin-wrench (not quite as large as a monkey-wrench).  Should blocks be subtracted as well?? 

A block can be a form of a steal, depending on who gets the blocked ball

[sac]

I didn't have boxscores of Alma to look at, at the time, but Jordan Redditt had an excellent weekend as well as those previously mentioned.  Jordan scored 56 points, 10 reb, and 7 assists in Alma's two wins..............he was co-player of the week with Michael McClary of Olivet.



Also, Trine has slipped in their make-up game with Franklin from Nov 16. for tonight at 7pm.  Trine has livestats this year.

http://www.trine.edu/trineathletics/live/mbb/xlive.htm

[sac]

Now a possible monkeywrench.   I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

And let me add a tamarin-wrench (not quite as large as a monkey-wrench).  Should blocks be subtracted as well?? 

A block can be a form of a steal, depending on who gets the blocked ball

You are all getting dangerously close to measuring player efficiency.

[realist]

I agree.  Good job FDF.
I am no expert on scoring, but I did a quick check on Calvin, and noticed a player named team.  YTD "team" has rebounds, and a to on the board.  
I also wonder what impact a block might have.  Some blocks are recovered by the blockers team, and is this a steal/t.o.?  How is a blocked shot recovered by the shooters team treated?

[Mr. Ypsi]

Now a possible monkeywrench.   I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

And let me add a tamarin-wrench (not quite as large as a monkey-wrench).  Should blocks be subtracted as well?? 

A block can be a form of a steal, depending on who gets the blocked ball

Probably not - unless there is a change of possession, in which case it is also a steal (I assume).  I was only looking at changes of possession.

Incidentally, by PM (so the source will have to identify himself if he wants credit! ) I got confirmation that my beliefs were correct: a charge IS a turnover, but taking a charge is not counted as a steal.  Alas, my final monkeywrench was also correct: no one (officially, at least) keeps track of charges taken.

That last is unfortunate.  Taking charges (as opposed to committing blocking fouls) is a very valuable (albeit dangerous and painful ) skill, which can wreak havoc on a team's penetration plans.

[Dark Knight]

Is there any way to figure out whether there have been any DIII games exceeding 39 points and 23 rebounds this year, men and/or beings?

[OC_SID]

OK ... I was the one who shared via PM with Mr. Ypsi that a charge is also a turnover.

To answer your other question. It's actually quite simple: Every missed shot needs a rebound ... Therefore, when a shot is blocked, a player gets credited with a rebound.

[KnightSlappy]

Now a possible monkeywrench.   I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

And let me add a tamarin-wrench (not quite as large as a monkey-wrench).  Should blocks be subtracted as well?? 

A block can be a form of a steal, depending on who gets the blocked ball

You are all getting dangerously close to measuring player efficiency.

What's so dangerous about player efficiency? I actually have a spreadsheet made to calculate PER for the MIAA, but I don't have it updated quite yet because I have been working on a second spreadsheet project. Which brings me to my next point... I should have regional rankings available very soon.

[sac]

Now a possible monkeywrench.   I've never been an official scorer, so am unsure, but aren't charging fouls also counted as turnovers?  However, I don't think taking a charge is credited as a steal - correct?  The fully correct formula might be A:[(TO-S)-CT], where CT is 'charges taken'.

Greg or anyone else knowledgable about college scoring rules?

(And, of course, the ultimate monkeywrench if the above is correct is that I can't ever recall seeing 'charges taken' on a stat sheet or box score!)

And let me add a tamarin-wrench (not quite as large as a monkey-wrench).  Should blocks be subtracted as well?? 

A block can be a form of a steal, depending on who gets the blocked ball

You are all getting dangerously close to measuring player efficiency.

What's so dangerous about player efficiency? I actually have a spreadsheet made to calculate PER for the MIAA, but I don't have it updated quite yet because I have been working on a second spreadsheet project. Which brings me to my next point... I should have regional rankings available very soon.

Nothing......at the rate stat categories were being added, I just thought they'd arrive at Player Efficiency without even knowing it.