MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Knightmare]

While everyone is pointing to Calvin's 3pt. shooting last night versus Hope's, and rightfully so, I think one of the reason's for that has been overlooked.  While Calvin definitely had some guys step up and hit the 3's it is made a whole lot easier when there is the presence, or at least the threat, of an inside game.  This is one area that Calvin clearly has the leg up on Hope.  Mantel occasionally drifts outside but he also can go inside with his back to the basket and have a guard drop the ball into him creating Hope's defense to sag from the perimeter or commit to a double team and thus freeing up outside shooters for better looks.  Hope on the other hand has some "post" players that are scrappy and have some talent though a bit undersized and no back to the basket game (at least until Venema becomes more of a contributor).  That extra time, little as it may be, can make a big difference between knocking down the 3 and being just off the mark.

Can't say it enough, a thrill to be able to catch the broadcast on the internet in Northern MI.  Don't feel so in the dark when people are commenting on the board about the game now.

[KnightSlappy]

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

How many times has Olivet seriously put together a great game this year? I think we've been giving the Comets far more credit than they have deserved to this point. Sure they're a good team, and they'll likely finish in the top half, but are they really serious challengers in the league?

Olivet beat Spring Arbor, the Cougars handled both Hope and Albion pretty easily.  Olivet was within 3 of GVSU with 3 minutes to play.

So we should consider them serious contenders because they won one good (home) game and 'stayed pretty close' with GVSU?

I'd be lying if I said I picked Albion over Olivet based on anything more than track record.

Calvin, Hope, and Albion all have recent track records of getting it done in the MIAA. Olivet does not have anything close to that. They're best year (last year) they only managed a 0.500 in-conference record and were only 1-5 against the top three. At some point they have to prove they can be a contender, and a lone win against Spring Arbor hasn't cut it for me.

[truth]

first post,  i would like to thank all of you for putting up game summaries for the hope team as this is where i always check to see an assessment of the games!

while i realize gvw deserves respect for his wins and prolonged prowess as a d3 coach, sometimes his wins are due to the talent he has and not his coaching. although this years team is struggling, they have a different type of talent not characteristically seen in hope teams, and gvw needs to abandon some of his "traditions" and use it.  they have athleticism, not a bunch of relatively slow 3 point shooters.  bunn needs some space to operate, as does krombeen, as does bowser. with his offensive sets, there is no room in the lane, which makes no sense seeing how they dont have a guy in the post that plays very well with his back to the basket.

maybe more of a drive and kick offense for the hope team? it looks like these guys are locked down physically and mentally, and the bench looks scared when they get in. gvw may need to open it up a little bit, as he has failed to effectively use a few very talented players in the past few years. great game last night, the online coverage was fantastic. must give some props to that rodts-mantel play, an unbelievable turn of events that first appeared to be a key turnover for hope, then morphed into a energy deflating key basket for calvin

[sac]

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

How many times has Olivet seriously put together a great game this year? I think we've been giving the Comets far more credit than they have deserved to this point. Sure they're a good team, and they'll likely finish in the top half, but are they really serious challengers in the league?

Olivet beat Spring Arbor, the Cougars handled both Hope and Albion pretty easily.  Olivet was within 3 of GVSU with 3 minutes to play.

So we should consider them serious contenders because they won one good (home) game and 'stayed pretty close' with GVSU?

I thought the original quote was pretty self explanitory.

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

[KnightSlappy]

sac, my point is that Olivet has really only stepped up to play a great game ONCE this season. That is not "at times" and that is not inconsistent, that is losing the vast majority of tough games.

[ziggy]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

[wiz]

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

How many times has Olivet seriously put together a great game this year? I think we've been giving the Comets far more credit than they have deserved to this point. Sure they're a good team, and they'll likely finish in the top half, but are they really serious challengers in the league?

Olivet beat Spring Arbor, the Cougars handled both Hope and Albion pretty easily.  Olivet was within 3 of GVSU with 3 minutes to play.

So we should consider them serious contenders because they won one good (home) game and 'stayed pretty close' with GVSU?

I thought the original quote was pretty self explanitory.

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

The quotes after the losses are always so interesting.

Last year VanWieren said during a television interview that Hope lost the score but not the game.!?

In the Holland Sentinel today we read this.  "Coach said at halftime if we get the lead, we're going to make a run," Bunn said. "Powell hit a couple of 3s, which killed us. It would have been our game."

I guess those other Calvin players didn't do much to help win this game.  Maybe we can get some of them to step up for the rematch.

[KnightSlappy]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

Exactly! They're a talented team, and they could beat a team like Calvin, or Hope, or Albion, or even Wooster or Wittenberg or John Carroll, but will they do that consistently enough to win the league? I can't say they can because I've NEVER seen them do it. Heck, I've never seen them get close to doing it.

[sac]

sac, my point is that Olivet has really only stepped up to play a great game ONCE this season. That is not "at times" and that is not inconsistent, that is losing the vast majority of tough games.

How many times have Hope, Calvin or Albion.....which was my point.

I guess I just have more respect for Spring Arbor, and for that matter Olivet.

[Bob MacKenzie]

I too enjoyed the internet feed from about 800 miles west.  Thanks for finally entering the 21st century.  (Can't believe it took that long).  Is Hope doing the same thing?  Other MIAA schools?

[KnightSlappy]

sac, my point is that Olivet has really only stepped up to play a great game ONCE this season. That is not "at times" and that is not inconsistent, that is losing the vast majority of tough games.

How many times have Hope, Calvin or Albion.....which was my point.

I guess I just have more respect for Spring Arbor, and for that matter Olivet.

Calvin beat Carthage, Ohio Northern (a better win than anything else OC has), and now Hope.
Hope has beaten Calvin, Wheaton, and Davenport.
Albion beat Wooster and now head to head with Olivet.

I strongly believe that all three have better resumes so far this season than OC has.

[ziggy]

sac, my point is that Olivet has really only stepped up to play a great game ONCE this season. That is not "at times" and that is not inconsistent, that is losing the vast majority of tough games.

How many times have Hope, Calvin or Albion.....which was my point.

I guess I just have more respect for Spring Arbor, and for that matter Olivet.

Fair enough, there really isn't a right or wrong in the discussion at this point in the season. For now, I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the perennial power 3; maybe I should have been from Missouri.

[sac]

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?


or if you are knightslappy, ziggy or anyone else that doesn't believe Olivet is a serious contender..........


One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four three teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

better?

[KnightSlappy]

One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?


or if you are knightslappy, ziggy or anyone else that doesn't believe Olivet is a serious contender..........


One other conclusion I drew tonight on the drive home..........all four three teams that we expect to seriously challenge for the title (Hope, Calvin, Albion, Olivet) have shown an ability to step up and play a great game at times, but have also shown a strange ability to put a real clunker effort out there.  Consistently inconsistent maybe?

better?

For now.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

Exactly! They're a talented team, and they could beat a team like Calvin, or Hope, or Albion, or even Wooster or Wittenberg or John Carroll, but will they do that consistently enough to win the league? I can't say they can because I've NEVER seen them do it. Heck, I've never seen them get close to doing it.

And I'm guessing you've never seen them play a game this season either.  

My point is that every year each school has a new team (the exception being the rare no seniors on the team and everyone comes back).  Some parts of the team return, others are new, the chemistry changes, etc.  To rely simply on the past history of the team seems a bit ridiculous.  That kind of thinking would then assume that since Calvin beat Hope 22 times in a row back in the 70's, the streak would never end.  It would also mean that since Olivet is undefeated against Calvin in the Van Noord, that the HOPE nation will have one thing to smile about on Saturday.