MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[KnightSlappy]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

Exactly! They're a talented team, and they could beat a team like Calvin, or Hope, or Albion, or even Wooster or Wittenberg or John Carroll, but will they do that consistently enough to win the league? I can't say they can because I've NEVER seen them do it. Heck, I've never seen them get close to doing it.

And I'm guessing you've never seen them play a game this season either. 

My point is that every year each school has a new team (the exception being the rare no seniors on the team and everyone comes back).  Some parts of the team return, others are new, the chemistry changes, etc.  To rely simply on the past history of the team seems a bit ridiculous.  That kind of thinking would then assume that since Calvin beat Hope 22 times in a row back in the 70's, the streak would never end.  It would also mean that since Olivet is undefeated against Calvin in the Van Noord, that the HOPE nation will have one thing to smile about on Saturday.

I don't want to get flagged for beating a dead Hope, but I feel that I'm getting egged on.

But how do you lose the best player on a 7-7 team, and then be considered a 'contender' without proving much in the new season? Has the rest of the league really lost that much talent? The point about track record is that OC doesnt have the track record for "coaching them up" (I understand the current coaching regime is still relatively new) like Albion and Calvin and Hope have.

And why would "Hope Nation" smile about their Pool C chances diminishing?

[ziggy]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

Exactly! They're a talented team, and they could beat a team like Calvin, or Hope, or Albion, or even Wooster or Wittenberg or John Carroll, but will they do that consistently enough to win the league? I can't say they can because I've NEVER seen them do it. Heck, I've never seen them get close to doing it.

And I'm guessing you've never seen them play a game this season either.  

My point is that every year each school has a new team (the exception being the rare no seniors on the team and everyone comes back).  Some parts of the team return, others are new, the chemistry changes, etc.  To rely simply on the past history of the team seems a bit ridiculous.  That kind of thinking would then assume that since Calvin beat Hope 22 times in a row back in the 70's, the streak would never end.  It would also mean that since Olivet is undefeated against Calvin in the Van Noord, that the HOPE nation will have one thing to smile about on Saturday.

Calvin beat Olivet at the VNA in the MIAA tournament semi-finals last year, so each team has a 50-50 shot on Saturday  .

This is why it would be nice to have wider representation on this board...

[GoKnights68]

It is the fundamental premise of Olivet being considered a challenger for the MIAA title that is being questioned, not whether Olivet is capable of playing well. Only a fool would discount Olivet's ability to beat Albion, Calvin, or Hope but whether they have proven enough to deserve talk about a championship is anything but certain.

Exactly! They're a talented team, and they could beat a team like Calvin, or Hope, or Albion, or even Wooster or Wittenberg or John Carroll, but will they do that consistently enough to win the league? I can't say they can because I've NEVER seen them do it. Heck, I've never seen them get close to doing it.

And I'm guessing you've never seen them play a game this season either.  

My point is that every year each school has a new team (the exception being the rare no seniors on the team and everyone comes back).  Some parts of the team return, others are new, the chemistry changes, etc.  To rely simply on the past history of the team seems a bit ridiculous.  That kind of thinking would then assume that since Calvin beat Hope 22 times in a row back in the 70's, the streak would never end.  It would also mean that since Olivet is undefeated against Calvin in the Van Noord, that the HOPE nation will have one thing to smile about on Saturday.

Olivet is not undefeated in Van Noord verses Calvin. They are 1-1.  Calvin beat them pretty handily in the semi-finals of the MIAA tournament last season.

EDIT:  Oops, Ziggy already corrected it.


Anyways, with all this debate about Olivet being good or not, I sure hope Calvin can beat them this Saturday.

[almcguirejr]

I thought the play of Salo, Snikkers, Schuster, Schnyders in the first half was really good.  I believe those 4 guys scored 29 of Calvin's first 40 points.  Receiving that kind of contribution from 4 guys who haven't played much in this rivalry was really unexpected.  Every Calvin player who saw action contributed last night.  This was a good team win.

[Civic Minded]

I thought the play of Salo, Snikkers, Schuster, Schnyders in the first half was really good.  I believe those 4 guys scored 29 of Calvin's first 40 points.  Receiving that kind of contribution from 4 guys who haven't played much in this rivalry was really unexpected.  Every Calvin player who saw action contributed last night.  This was a good team win.

It was a good team win -- hats off to the Knights for a great game.  And the Rodts to Mantel thing...wow, that was something else.  Glad I was there to see it in person.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I don't want to get flagged for beating a dead Hope, but I feel that I'm getting egged on.

But how do you lose the best player on a 7-7 team, and then be considered a 'contender' without proving much in the new season? Has the rest of the league really lost that much talent? The point about track record is that OC doesnt have the track record for "coaching them up" (I understand the current coaching regime is still relatively new) like Albion and Calvin and Hope have.

And why would "Hope Nation" smile about their Pool C chances diminishing?

Keep in mind, that prior to the games last night, Massey had Olivet as the highest ranked MIAA team. 

And yes, an Olivet win on Saturday could diminish our Pool C chances, but surely you don't mean to suggest that Hope fans wouldn't smile at a Calvin loss - I mean come on, let's be honest here.  I expect it to be no different for Calvin fans when Hope looses.

All that being said, if the Calvin team I saw last night shows up on Saturday, you will all have little to worry about.

[KnightSlappy]

I don't want to get flagged for beating a dead Hope, but I feel that I'm getting egged on.

But how do you lose the best player on a 7-7 team, and then be considered a 'contender' without proving much in the new season? Has the rest of the league really lost that much talent? The point about track record is that OC doesnt have the track record for "coaching them up" (I understand the current coaching regime is still relatively new) like Albion and Calvin and Hope have.

And why would "Hope Nation" smile about their Pool C chances diminishing?

Keep in mind, that prior to the games last night, Massey had Olivet as the highest ranked MIAA team. 

And yes, an Olivet win on Saturday could diminish our Pool C chances, but surely you don't mean to suggest that Hope fans wouldn't smile at a Calvin loss - I mean come on, let's be honest here.  I expect it to be no different for Calvin fans when Hope looses.

All that being said, if the Calvin team I saw last night shows up on Saturday, you will all have little to worry about.

Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike Hope (I'd even consider the 'hate' word), but I like Calvin more than I dislike the Dutchmen. For that reason, I *hope* that the result of the Hope game is one that would most benefit Calvin and their chances to keep playing into March.

[NW Hope Fan]

Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike Hope (I'd even consider the 'hate' word)

Wiz and Stinger aside, I've never really understood this, and I wish someone could explain this to me.

I grew up in the Reformed Church, spent a total of 6 years at Hope including going back for a teaching degree, was a varsity athlete, coached at Hope for 8 years, worked at Western Seminary, and will always root for Hope over Calvin, or any other team for that matter... But I've never felt a dislike, or considered a hatred for Calvin College, or any other college. There have been some posters I'd like to punch in the nose, and once I was done, would be over it... but Hate?

What is it, that an institution founded on similar principals, that now even church doctrinally is so close that differences can hardly be found, causes so much disdain? It's like hating your brother or sister... or first cousin at the very least. Were you personally done wrong by the institution? Someone please explain... And if your answer is a "cake eater" answer... don't bother.

[Hopecouple]

Has anyone ever thought about this combo?  Jared Mysliwiec as Point, Peter Bunn,     David Krombeen, Will Bowser, (Nate Snuggerud or Chris Nelis).... just a thought? or even Jared Mysliwiec as a fill in for David Krombeen? 

[Gregory Sager]

What is it, that an institution founded on similar principals, that now even church doctrinally is so close that differences can hardly be found, causes so much disdain? It's like hating your brother or sister... or first cousin at the very least. Were you personally done wrong by the institution? Someone please explain... And if your answer is a "cake eater" answer... don't bother.

Marie Antoinette e-mailed me to complain about your discriminating against cake eaters.

[Bob MacKenzie]

Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike Hope (I'd even consider the 'hate' word)

Wiz and Stinger aside, I've never really understood this, and I wish someone could explain this to me.

I grew up in the Reformed Church, spent a total of 6 years at Hope including going back for a teaching degree, was a varsity athlete, coached at Hope for 8 years, worked at Western Seminary, and will always root for Hope over Calvin, or any other team for that matter... But I've never felt a dislike, or considered a hatred for Calvin College, or any other college. There have been some posters I'd like to punch in the nose, and once I was done, would be over it... but Hate?

What is it, that an institution founded on similar principals, that now even church doctrinally is so close that differences can hardly be found, causes so much disdain? It's like hating your brother or sister... or first cousin at the very least. Were you personally done wrong by the institution? Someone please explain... And if your answer is a "cake eater" answer... don't bother.

What's so hard to understand?  It's like Michigan/Ohio State.  Duke/NC.  Packer/Vikings (or Packers/Bears for those of you old enough to remember when the Bears were consistently competitive).  Maybe hate is a little strong.  But whoever is playing my archrival automatically becomes my second favorite team on any given game day.  And the closer we are relationally (religious principal for Calvin/Hope, a QB wearing #4 for Green Bay/Minnesota, geographically for Duke/NC) the more intense the feeling is likely to become.

[almcguirejr]

Don't get me wrong, I strongly dislike Hope (I'd even consider the 'hate' word)

There have been some posters I'd like to punch in the nose, and once I was done, would be over it... but Hate?

I agree the feeling of wanting to assault someone is much healthier.

[NW Hope Fan]

What's so hard to understand?  It's like Michigan/Ohio State.  Duke/NC.  Packer/Vikings (or Packers/Bears for those of you old enough to remember when the Bears were consistently competitive).  Maybe hate is a little strong.  But whoever is playing my archrival automatically becomes my second favorite team on any given game day.  And the closer we are relationally (religious principal for Calvin/Hope, a QB wearing #4 for Green Bay/Minnesota, geographically for Duke/NC) the more intense the feeling is likely to become.

Yeah....

No!

I get that... but "hate" or even "dislike" doesn't make sense to me, and seems fairly childish. Just my opinion.

And as intense as my passion for Hope sports was and is, my feelings have nothing to do with my increasing age or distance from West Michigan.

[realist]

IMHO:  There are few things in life that give me more satisfaction than hearing that a Calvin team has beaten a Hope team at anything, any time, any where.  Do I hate/dislike etc. etc. etc. Hope?  Nope.   I just love hearing that Calvin (or any team playing Hope) beat them at something.  All that being siad once the season is over, and if Hope is the MIAA entry into the NCAA they become my sentimental favorite all the way up to those runner up banners, which I really, really love.

[Intangir]

Interesting experiment from Michael Zuidema:
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2010/01/this_hope_grads_experiment_in.html

Didn't see anybody comment on this so I wanted to say thanks for posting it, that was a fun read, and good to see that he had a generally positive experience with it.

Also, I was just returning from vacation last night and so wasn't sure I'd be back in time for the game but was able to catch the game streaming online which was fantastic and I really hope it continues.  

Heck of a fun game to watch (at least as a Calvin fan, I know it sucks to be on the losing end), from all the big 3-pointers to a lot of great plays by both teams (especially some great blocked shots and the already mentioned over-the-shoulder assist), it was just brilliant.