MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Titan Q]

In terms of #2 (Academic), I see a lot of very good academic institutions in Division III traveling to to play in-region games.  My alma mater, Illinois Wesleyan, is a very good school with a roster full of good students.  IWU made the 275 trek to Hanover a few times in the last 5 years...now the Titans have a similar series going with Manchester (200 miles away).  (And I'm just using the school I am most familiar with as an example...we could all point to a ton of good academic programs that travel.)   So I guess I need to hear more to better understand this one.

This is the life philosophy I hope to teach my daughter. If others are doing it, it automatically means it's a good think to do.

Another good life lesson is learning time management...which college student-athletes certainly do when they have to travel.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

In terms of #2 (Academic), I see a lot of very good academic institutions in Division III traveling to to play in-region games.  My alma mater, Illinois Wesleyan, is a very good school with a roster full of good students.  IWU made the 275 trek to Hanover a few times in the last 5 years...now the Titans have a similar series going with Manchester (200 miles away).  (And I'm just using the school I am most familiar with as an example...we could all point to a ton of good academic programs that travel.)   So I guess I need to hear more to better understand this one.

This is the life philosophy I hope to teach my daughter. If others are doing it, it automatically means it's a good think to do.

While I don't disagree with your general premise KnightSlappy I think the point Titan Q really makes (or at least the one I see) is that numerous institutions have found it is possible to balance stringent academic requirements and still travel for games.

The end game is many schools likely choose not to travel for games, probably because of factor #1 or 3, but may publicly tout factor #2 because it is the more politically correct reason (I will not presume to know Hope or Calvin's position. This is for the sake of argument). Titan Q demonstrates that schools can and do balance the travel-academic issues and suggesting MIAA schools couldn't travel for more in region games because of academics is an argument that really falls short, at least in my opinion.

[GoKnights68]

Both Hope and Calvin were not worthy of getting in the Tourney this year.  Like the NCAC both conferences were very weak this year, more than normal.  Period, no ifs ands or buts about it.    Now, Hope will beat St Norbert, after that they'll be at home cause no way they beat UWSP. 


Like Srgt' Slaughter.....and that's an order!  lol...

seriously though, it will end for them there. 

Hope won the conference tourney, therefore they deserve to get in.  I think a lot of people didn't take anything after your first sentence on the board seriously after that statement.

[KnightSlappy]

I understand his point, and I would like to see Calvin schedule more in-region d3 teams. I just don't like the "other teams can do it so you should too" argument. Just because "good schools" do it, doesn't mean it is what's best for the student athlete.

For what it's worth "the good of the student athlete" is probably very over-used.

[GoKnights68]

Every year you play soft schedules and that's why you struggle so much in the NCAA Tourney.

Better to stay quiet and people think you're a fool than open your mouth (or type at your keyboard) and remove all doubt.  

2000 - Calvin National Champion
2001 - Calvin loses in second round
2002 - Hope loses in second round
2003 - Hope loses in second round
2004 - Calvin loses in second round
2005 - Calvin 3rd place
2006 - Hope loses in sweet 16, Calvin loses to Hope in second round
2007 - Hope loses in Elite 8
2008 - Hope 3rd place
2009 - Hope loses in first round

I think there are probably a lot of schools and conferences that would take the MIAA's "struggles."  

And in 2007, Calvin lost in the second round...to Hope

[Titan Q]

I understand his point, and I would like to see Calvin schedule more in-region d3 teams. I just don't like the "other teams can do it so you should too" argument.

That is not actually my argument.  Mine, rather, is "other teams can do it so you can too."  (Not should.)  There is a big difference there - I'm not trying to tell Calvin what they should do. Above I said, "if the reason is #3, than it is what it is."  I'll respect that decision 100%.

[calvin_grad]

I am sure the basketball players, particularly upperclassman, won't even have Friday classes.

John Mantel is going to graduate this year with a degree in Mechanical engineering.  As an engineering grad from Calvin myself, I can just about guarantee that as a basketball player, an upperclassman, and an engineering major - he has Friday classes.

[wiz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc_7I3QqRkU

Ah, the simple life in Happyville!

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I am sure the basketball players, particularly upperclassman, won't even have Friday classes.

John Mantel is going to graduate this year with a degree in Mechanical engineering.  As an engineering grad from Calvin myself, I can just about guarantee that as a basketball player, an upperclassman, and an engineering major - he has Friday classes.

Hope also has certain majors where it is all but impossible to avoid Friday classes during your senior year, however, I'll still contend that many upper classman at any college can avoid Friday classes if they really want to. And there are a lot of students who want to.

[wiz]

When does the MIAA announce their all league refs of the year?

[calvin_grad]

I am sure the basketball players, particularly upperclassman, won't even have Friday classes.

John Mantel is going to graduate this year with a degree in Mechanical engineering.  As an engineering grad from Calvin myself, I can just about guarantee that as a basketball player, an upperclassman, and an engineering major - he has Friday classes.

Hope also has certain majors where it is all but impossible to avoid Friday classes during your senior year, however, I'll still contend that many upper classman at any college can avoid Friday classes if they really want to. And there are a lot of students who want to.

You're certainly correct.  I was one of the students who wanted to.  But I'll contend that as an engineering major (at least when I was in school), that was impossible.  I just thought that to say all basketball players won't have Friday classes was a bit of a stretch.

Whatever.  Not a big deal.  I'm still jealous of my friends who had Monday, Wednesday, and Friday off as seniors.   

[GoKnights68]

I am sure the basketball players, particularly upperclassman, won't even have Friday classes.

John Mantel is going to graduate this year with a degree in Mechanical engineering.  As an engineering grad from Calvin myself, I can just about guarantee that as a basketball player, an upperclassman, and an engineering major - he has Friday classes.

Hope also has certain majors where it is all but impossible to avoid Friday classes during your senior year, however, I'll still contend that many upper classman at any college can avoid Friday classes if they really want to. And there are a lot of students who want to.

A lot can avoid Friday morning  and mid-morning classes if they want to their senior year, but sometimes classes they want to/need to take are only offered Monday-Wednesday-Friday.

[pointlem]

Titan Q (or Ziggy or Sac or OldKnight), help me to understand the argument that MIAA teams would boost their Pool C chances by scheduling more in-region games.  The quantitative yardstick doesn't explicitly mention number of games, but rather:
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP). . . .

So, if School A is 5-1 against in-region opponents, School B is 10-2, and School C is 15-3 . . . and their opponents' SOS is the same. . . is there an advantage to having more (as opposited to a higher percentage of) in-region wins? 

[knights2000]

Every year you play soft schedules and that's why you struggle so much in the NCAA Tourney.

Better to stay quiet and people think you're a fool than open your mouth (or type at your keyboard) and remove all doubt.  

2000 - Calvin National Champion
2001 - Calvin loses in second round
2002 - Hope loses in second round
2003 - Hope loses in second round
2004 - Calvin loses in second round
2005 - Calvin 3rd place
2006 - Hope loses in sweet 16, Calvin loses to Hope in second round
2007 - Hope loses in Elite 8
2008 - Hope 3rd place
2009 - Hope loses in first round

I think there are probably a lot of schools and conferences that would take the MIAA's "struggles."  

And in 2007, Calvin lost in the second round...to Hope

And don't forget that Calvin beat Albion in the Elite 8 on their way to the Final Four in 2005.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Titan Q (or Ziggy or Sac or OldKnight), help me to understand the argument that MIAA teams would boost their Pool C chances by scheduling more in-region games.  The quantitative yardstick doesn't explicitly mention number of games, but rather:
• Win-loss percentage against regional opponents
• Strength-of-schedule (only contests versus regional competition).
- Opponents' Average Winning Percentage (OWP). . . .

So, if School A is 5-1 against in-region opponents, School B is 10-2, and School C is 15-3 . . . and their opponents' SOS is the same. . . is there an advantage to having more (as opposited to a higher percentage of) in-region wins? 

My understanding is that technically there is no difference and in your scenario Schools A-C would hypothetically be ranked the same.

I think the the argument for MIAA teams to boost their in-region games is it would give a team a greater margin for error.  The fewer games loss hurts.

The other concern is based on the fact that while the numbers say 5-1 is the same as 15-3 I think some of us are concerned that the when a committee sees those two records, at least subconsciously, 15-3 just looks better. Larger sample size.