MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Yeah, any info on Hope?  I always figure they're expecting a D1 transfer or two, plus a couple springy 6'5" kids from schools I've never heard of.  

Usually later in April

It is still early, putting together a group GVW can underachieve with takes time.

Hard to knock on a coach that has known how to get it done in the league tourney the past few years, though.



Of course maybe you were just joking around.    

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Yeah, any info on Hope?  I always figure they're expecting a D1 transfer or two, plus a couple springy 6'5" kids from schools I've never heard of.   

Usually later in April

It is still early, putting together a group GVW can underachieve with takes time.

What does that say about the last 5 years of Calvin teams?  It must be painful to get repeatedly beaten by a group of underachievers

[sac]

A couple interesting reclassifications for some West Michigan high schools by the MHSAA

Byron Center to A
Grand Rapids Union to A

Grand Rapids Christian to B
Wayland to B

......and the most interesting one, which means they cannot defend their 3 time Class D basketball championship.......Western Michigan Christian to C


http://www.mhsaa.com/News/PressReleases/tabid/224/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/128/Classifications-For-201011-School-Year-Announced.aspx

[CalKnight60]

Yeah, any info on Hope?  I always figure they're expecting a D1 transfer or two, plus a couple springy 6'5" kids from schools I've never heard of.   

Usually later in April

It is still early, putting together a group GVW can underachieve with takes time.

What does that say about the last 5 years of Calvin teams?  It must be painful to get repeatedly beaten by a group of underachievers

Just because Calvin gets beat by underachievers does not mean that they themselves are underachieveing(although that argument could be made)....maybe they just dont have as much talent or D-1 transfers to begin with.

[ziggy]

Just because Calvin gets beat by underachievers does not mean that they themselves are underachieveing(although that argument could be made)....maybe they just dont have as much talent or D-1 transfers to begin with.

Well done Cal, however that sort of logic doesn't usually play well here. Square pegs do not fit into round holes, regardless of the hole's diameter or the square's diagonal length.

Also, GoKnights68 might be right...

[ziggy]

John Mantel and Matt Veltema will be taking part in an exhibition event held on Saturday at the Palace. John will be in the slam dunk contest while Matt will be in the three point shootout. The event features a mix of Michigan high school and college players.
http://www.palacenet.com/news.asp?news=691

[sac]

Considering my expectations the past two years for Hope were to not make the NCAA tournament...........and they finished the season in the NCAA as the lone MIAA rep and tournament champion, I'll go with not underachieving.

This all followed 3 years where they won the MIAA twice, MIAA tournament twice, and went to the NCAA all 3 years.......the sweet 16, quarterfinals then final four.

Plus the added bonus of being Calvin's last opponent and loss of the past 5 seasons.


It all seems pretty good over here for a bunch of underachievers.  

[Knight81]

Hope is just as talented as Calvin, and does not underachieve. It just appears to me that over the last couple years Hope has filled out its recruiting class later than Calvin.

[calvin_grad]

John Mantel and Matt Veltema will be taking part in an exhibition event held on Saturday at the Palace. John will be in the slam dunk contest while Matt will be in the three point shootout. The event features a mix of Michigan high school and college players.
http://www.palacenet.com/news.asp?news=691

Doug Anderson vs. John Mantel?? I love what John has meant to Calvin over the past 4 years, but OUCH!!   

[realist]

HCG.  I think you nailed it.  Not every player is suited to being that type of leader.  
Watching KVS for these many years now I doubt he really prizes a player stepping up, and being a vocal leader.  I know, I know he says all the right words, but when you look at what happens on the floor he appears to be uncomfortable when a player shows either initiative or creativeness or asserts themselves like an alpha dog.    
It will be interesting to watch this new class coming in.  If reports are right several of them haven't been afraid to take chances when the opportunity presented itself.  
Looking back at some of the guys I thought would be alpha dogs imho when several made the move to become that player it was not encouraged.  Any number of players over the years have expressed their frustration, and bewilderment with KVS via facial expressions, and body language.  For example some posters expressed the opinion that Veldhouse really didn't have a great sr. year.  Perhaps he just decided it wasn't worth the grief to fight "the system".  Ask yourself why Veltema, and Mantel (and one or two players every year) seemed to just disappear from time to time.
FWIW:  FDF & Sac are correct.  If any team should be wearing the label underachievers the past several years it is Calvin.
Like others I am encouraged hearing about the quality kids that Calvin is getting, but I will hold off on grading them for several years.  It is one thing to get the talent, and quite another to use it to best advantage.  

[ziggy]

Considering my expectations the past two years for Hope were to not make the NCAA tournament...........and they finished the season in the NCAA as the lone MIAA rep and tournament champion, I'll go with not underachieving.

This all followed 3 years where they won the MIAA twice, MIAA tournament twice, and went to the NCAA all 3 years.......the sweet 16, quarterfinals then final four.

Plus the added bonus of being Calvin's last opponent and loss of the past 5 seasons.

It all seems pretty good over here for a bunch of underachievers.  

My attempts at off-season rabel-rousing aside, I must point out that the poll at the top of the page is nearly identical to the poll taken one year ago. Expectations apparently weren't as low as some might want the rest of the board to believe.

Until something drastically changes, Calvin AND Hope should have top talent perhaps only challenged by whatever the flavor of the week happens to be at the time.

Family ties will always sway certain players one way or another but I am wondering to what extent the new Spoelhof Complex might have on guys that would consider Hope and Calvin. Hope had a few years with a clear facilities advantage but Calvin has had the strongest early recruiting for the last two years now. I don't know the stories of each player individually but from my vantage point it seemed that facilities (athletic and educational) played a big part in bringing Bryan Powell to Knollcrest.

[ziggy]

HCG.  I think you nailed it.  Not every player is suited to being that type of leader.  
Watching KVS for these many years now I doubt he really prizes a player stepping up, and being a vocal leader.  I know, I know he says all the right words, but when you look at what happens on the floor he appears to be uncomfortable when a player shows either initiative or creativeness or asserts themselves like an alpha dog.    
It will be interesting to watch this new class coming in.  If reports are right several of them haven't been afraid to take chances when the opportunity presented itself.  
Looking back at some of the guys I thought would be alpha dogs imho when several made the move to become that player it was not encouraged.  Any number of players over the years have expressed their frustration, and bewilderment with KVS via facial expressions, and body language.  For example some posters expressed the opinion that Veldhouse really didn't have a great sr. year.  Perhaps he just decided it wasn't worth the grief to fight "the system".  Ask yourself why Veltema, and Mantel (and one or two players every year) seemed to just disappear from time to time.

I don't think it has to be one way or the other. The Chauncey Billups-Larry Brown case is an example of success in that dynamic. In the end, Brown got his championship and Billups became a bonafide star. Bryan Powell will be the player to watch over the next couple years. He has the kind of no fear attitude that can be volatile but I think he also showed restraint at time and has the potential to become a great leader.

[realist]

I agree it is not all one way or all the other way, just tendencies.  Perhaps you are right that Powell will become that player.  History tells me not to build my hopes up as each time I have done so it did not happen, and in most cases it wasn't because the player lacked the ability to really make things click.  Looking at next years jr's and sr's I don't see the standout guy, and Snikkers seems to have the right mindset to grow into that type role.  Frankly I just don't see KVS relinquishing enough control to allow a player to become effectrive as a floor leader.  Veltema is a classic example of a player that just seemed to know when he was in the zone, and instead of using this opportunity to full adsvantage time after time KVS stuck with his predetermined subbing script.
I think Calvin has had the talented players to really be creative, it just has not been the way things were allowed to go.  The end result is a team that did not reach the full potential of either the individual players or the team as a unit.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope is just as talented as Calvin, and does not underachieve. It just appears to me that over the last couple years Hope has filled out its recruiting class later than Calvin.

Don't confuse a recruit list becoming public with when the recruiting takes place or is completed.   Hope simply does not talk publicly about it as quickly as Calvin does.  Not to mention that Hope has (at least for the past 5 years) been focused on the current season longer than Calvin has.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Hope is just as talented as Calvin, and does not underachieve. It just appears to me that over the last couple years Hope has filled out its recruiting class later than Calvin.

Don't confuse a recruit list becoming public with when the recruiting takes place or is completed.   Hope simply does not talk publicly about it as quickly as Calvin does.  Not to mention that Hope has (at least for the past 5 years) been focused on the current season longer than Calvin has.

ZING!  for the last sentence!

Two possible reasons why Calvin seems earlier:

1.  Not positive, but I believe it is a d3 violation for schools to talk about recruits before a non-refundable deposit has been submitted - might there be a difference between Calvin and Hope in the date this is usually done?

2.  Calvin and Hope may have different philosophies in terms of what is a competitive advantage.  Perhaps Calvin thinks an early strong class would encourage other recruits?  Perhaps Hope believes not letting others know what they've got is the way to go?  (Pure speculation on my part, but seems plausible to me.)