MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Not to add to the speculation, but, I was picking up a friend this morning at Tulip City Airport................and I swear I saw a gentleman that looked alot like Steve Alford getting into a blue Lexus SUV with a Hope College parking sticker on it........................

speculation can't get any wilder than that...............esp since this just happened   http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=rivals-368383

Kinesiology is the fancy smancy term for Phys Ed.  

Technically, it is much more than Phys Ed. As Realist indicated, it encompasses occupational therapy, physical therapy, and aspects of internal medicine and orthopedics. It involves as much classroom theory as activity, if not more. But I suspect that he's also right about the term being open to interpretation for Hope's purposes. I suppose that it all boils down to: a) which courses GVW taught; and b) which courses his replacement will be expected to teach. Based upon the job advertisement, though, it appears that Hope is looking for more of a coaching/teaching balancing act than is typical for such a high-profile basketball program. USee mentioned last year's Wheaton search, for instance. Retiring Wheaton head coach Bill Harris was not a member of the Wheaton faculty. GVW's replacement will be a member of the Hope faculty. That's a huge distinction.

While there are an ;)o public speculation, it would at least appear on the face of it that Hope has tailored its job search more narrowly than other D3 schools with high-profile men's basketball programs who've recently gone through hiring processes, and that this is because of teaching demands.

Nobody can put out the fire of an attempt at humor as you can Greg         ...or maybe  

From my quick count (to answer SAC's question), I have:

1. Glenn VaWieren vs Kevin Vande Streek - 41 games
2. Glenn VanWieren vs Ed Douma - 30 games
3. Russ DeVette vs Barney Steen - 20 games
4. Glenn VanWieren vs Don Vroon - 16 games
5. Russ DeVette vs Ralph Honderd - 15 games

To OldKnight: thanks for the shout-out...I see that Drake is scheduled to host the 2016 U.S. Olympic Track and Field Trials at the hold horseshoe on the Drake Campus. If I recall, the Hope football team played a game or two at Drake's old stadium in the early 1990s.

JF

Thanks for the research.....and yes Hope did play Drake in both 90 and at Drake in 91, winning both games.

[GoKnights68]

Not to add to the speculation, but, I was picking up a friend this morning at Tulip City Airport................and I swear I saw a gentleman that looked alot like Steve Alford getting into a blue Lexus SUV with a Hope College parking sticker on it........................

I remember during Michigan's head football coach search a couple years back, there was a big rumor going around that Les Mile's wife was scene "house-shopping" around Ann Arbor.

[Gregory Sager]

Just call me Mr. Wet Blanket, sac.

While there are any number of factors that are probably hidden beneath the surface and unavailable to public speculation, it would at least appear on the face of it that Hope has tailored its job search more narrowly than other D3 schools with high-profile men's basketball programs who've recently gone through hiring processes, and that this is because of teaching demands.

It struck me as I was reading the job description that it really narrowed the field if they are strongly looking for someone with a ph.d.

I think that that's a function of the fact that Hope is seeking a bona-fide faculty member, not just a basketball coach. As I said before when referring to last year's Wheaton coaching change, there's a big distinction between hiring a coach whom you intend to give faculty rank and hiring a coach who won't be listed as faculty. Among other things, possessing a terminal degree -- which in kinesiology is a Ph.D. -- is a major factor involved in faculty hiring. Colleges and universities are very keen on using their faculty's credentials in order to tout their academic virtues as institutions, especially schools such as Hope that position themselves as high-end schools as far as academics go, and Ph.D. status is a big part of that. Anyone who's spent time looking at magazine rankings like those put out by U.S. News & World Report or The Princeton Review or who is familiar with college promotional literature knows how much stress schools place upon the percentage of Ph.D.s they have in their faculties.

That's not to say that Hope is going to hire a coach who has his doctorate, of course -- some schools confer faculty status upon a coach/teacher who only has a master's degree -- but the fact that it's advertised as a faculty position with a "Ph.D. preferred" caveat seems to indicate that the school's academic pedigree is a factor in play here. As such, I think that comparisons to schools that did not hire a coach who was intended to be a faculty member don't really add anything to this conversation.

[wiz]

There has been a lot of banter on this site regarding GVW's retirement.  Some say we shouldn't speculate.  Others want a time of mourning.  Still others insist on a national search.  Even though we are talking about replacing a basketball coach at a small D3 school in a rural town of only 35,000 population, I thought I must be missing something as the excitement just isn't kicking in for me.  So, I too went on a national search and have asked people from around the country and the world, for that matter, to chime in. 

I posed this question to several well known people:  "What do you think of the retirement of Glen VanWieren and the national search for a new head basketball coach at Hope College?" 

Here are some of the responses I have received so far:

Joe Biden: "This is a BFD."
Barack Obama: "America needs a Change at Hope."
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "They are inexperienced amateurs."
sac: "Maybe we could wait for the ink to dry a little more."
Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"
Clark Gable:  "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!"
Doug Wentworth: "This calls for some Hudsonville Ice Cream."
Calvin students: "Who cares? Where's your banner?"
Dustin Lance Black: "Hire me, hire me, I just love kinesiology

[Erm Schmigget]

Got to thinking about trying to define what makes a "top coaching job in Division III."  I think some mix of all of the following...

* Winning tradition
* Quality of facilities
* Quality of the school (academically)
* Fan base (attendance)
* Institutional commitment to and support for winning

Missing any?

I think these factors are all present to some degree in the "top coaching jobs", whether talking DI, DII, DIII, or NAIA.  I think the jobs considered the best are ones where coaches feel like they have a legitimate chance to compete for a national championship (because they feel like they can successfully attract the type of recruits they want to target).

Hope clearly can put a check mark next to all 5 categories above.

*Commitment to academics above athletics

I was surprised and saddened to see a Hope player drop out of the program mid-season many years ago, but then encouraged to find out that the reason was to focus on academics, which had started to slip.  If I remember correctly, that decision meant missing out on a Final Four season.  The coach was sad to see the player go, but the best counsel was to encourage the student/athlete to focus on academics.

Unless I miss read it, Titan was referring not to what Hope would be looking at but instead listing what would make the job qualify as a top program.  Not sure I would agree that academics above athletics makes for a more prestigious job (see Kentucky at D1) but would agree that in the scheme of things it is the right ordering and the one Hope will choose.

I don't think you misread it...I do think I misread it the first time.  Even so, I think one thing that sets top DIII institutions apart from top scholarship-giving schools is that heavier emphasis on academics.  The coaching job at Kentucky is prestigious mostly because of the winning tradition of the team, unlike what I believe to be the case at an upper-echelon DIII institution.  Successful DIII teams are known just as much for their players' high academic success as their success on the court/field/course/etc.  Not always the case in DI.  That's why I left my original post in place as is.

In short, you're not wrong...but I decided that my post wasn't either, even after I re-read TQ's.

[northb]

So, I haven't read the board for a while since it is off-season.  Anything new going on in the MIAA?

[Gregory Sager]

Got to thinking about trying to define what makes a "top coaching job in Division III."  I think some mix of all of the following...

* Winning tradition
* Quality of facilities
* Quality of the school (academically)
* Fan base (attendance)
* Institutional commitment to and support for winning

Missing any?

I think these factors are all present to some degree in the "top coaching jobs", whether talking DI, DII, DIII, or NAIA.  I think the jobs considered the best are ones where coaches feel like they have a legitimate chance to compete for a national championship (because they feel like they can successfully attract the type of recruits they want to target).

Hope clearly can put a check mark next to all 5 categories above.

*Commitment to academics above athletics

I was surprised and saddened to see a Hope player drop out of the program mid-season many years ago, but then encouraged to find out that the reason was to focus on academics, which had started to slip.  If I remember correctly, that decision meant missing out on a Final Four season.  The coach was sad to see the player go, but the best counsel was to encourage the student/athlete to focus on academics.

Unless I miss read it, Titan was referring not to what Hope would be looking at but instead listing what would make the job qualify as a top program.  Not sure I would agree that academics above athletics makes for a more prestigious job (see Kentucky at D1) but would agree that in the scheme of things it is the right ordering and the one Hope will choose.

I don't think you misread it...I do think I misread it the first time.  Even so, I think one thing that sets top DIII institutions apart from top scholarship-giving schools is that heavier emphasis on academics.  The coaching job at Kentucky is prestigious mostly because of the winning tradition of the team, unlike what I believe to be the case at an upper-echelon DIII institution.  Successful DIII teams are known just as much for their players' high academic success as their success on the court/field/course/etc.  Not always the case in DI.  That's why I left my original post in place as is.

In short, you're not wrong...but I decided that my post wasn't either, even after I re-read TQ's.

No offense to our defending champion, which is a fine institution, but I doubt that UWSP would be considered an academic powerhouse by most standards.

[ziggy]

So, I haven't read the board for a while since it is off-season.  Anything new going on in the MIAA?

Nothing we can talk about.

[ChicagoHopeNut]

While there are any number of factors that are probably hidden beneath the surface and unavailable to public speculation, it would at least appear on the face of it that Hope has tailored its job search more narrowly than other D3 schools with high-profile men's basketball programs who've recently gone through hiring processes, and that this is because of teaching demands.

It struck me as I was reading the job description that it really narrowed the field if they are strongly looking for someone with a ph.d.  Chicago Hope Nut mentioned Chad Carlson in a post the other day.  If Hope officials really have a narrow definition then that seems like it would play in Carlson's favor.  I believe he has the ph.d, he played for GVW, strong family ties to Hope, and would probably be willing to keep Davelaar and Matt Neil as assistants.  The Hope basketball culture would continue as it has for the last 30 years and His inexperience would be minimized by  keeping Neil and Dav.

I know when I first learned Carlson was going to get a phd many years ago my first thought was that he was looking to position himself to be eligible for the Hope coaching position.

As mentioned, unlike a place like Wheaton where coaches are hired to coach. At Hope, the coaches are also expected to teach. I think part of this is simply a matter of economics but whatever the reasoning it does limit the pool a bit. However, I am sure Hope could stretch the definition or find an alternative arrangement if it really wanted to. In fact, Brian Morehouse is not faculty but is director of DeVos and the Dow Center on Hope's campus.

Plus, teaching Kineseology 101 at Hope does not require a ton. If you gave the coach only  the general education requirement classes just about anyone with a whistle and basic understanding of biology and nutrition could do it.

[Gregory Sager]

While there are any number of factors that are probably hidden beneath the surface and unavailable to public speculation, it would at least appear on the face of it that Hope has tailored its job search more narrowly than other D3 schools with high-profile men's basketball programs who've recently gone through hiring processes, and that this is because of teaching demands.

It struck me as I was reading the job description that it really narrowed the field if they are strongly looking for someone with a ph.d.  Chicago Hope Nut mentioned Chad Carlson in a post the other day.  If Hope officials really have a narrow definition then that seems like it would play in Carlson's favor.  I believe he has the ph.d, he played for GVW, strong family ties to Hope, and would probably be willing to keep Davelaar and Matt Neil as assistants.  The Hope basketball culture would continue as it has for the last 30 years and His inexperience would be minimized by  keeping Neil and Dav.

I know when I first learned Carlson was going to get a phd many years ago my first thought was that he was looking to position himself to be eligible for the Hope coaching position.

As mentioned, unlike a place like Wheaton where coaches are hired to coach. At Hope, the coaches are also expected to teach. I think part of this is simply a matter of economics but whatever the reasoning it does limit the pool a bit. However, I am sure Hope could stretch the definition or find an alternative arrangement if it really wanted to. In fact, Brian Morehouse is not faculty but is director of DeVos and the Dow Center on Hope's campus.

Plus, teaching Kineseology 101 at Hope does not require a ton. If you gave the coach only  the general education requirement classes just about anyone with a whistle and basic understanding of biology and nutrition could do it.

Again, though, the posted job advertisement is for a faculty position, with the explicit statement that a Ph.D. is preferred for the position. Speculation about "an alternative arrangement" (e.g., Brian Morehouse's non-faculty role as a staff employee) is not supported by what Hope has posted regarding the job. And a teacher doesn't get added to a faculty roster if his or her job is considered to be nothing more than stuff that "just about anyone with a whistle and basic understanding of biology and nutrition" could do. That's more a description of what an adjunct (or, if you're in the WIAC, an "ad hoc") instructor does.

[maroonandgold]

Since the announcement of GVW's retirement and the beginning of the job search, I have not heard any comments about the effect of the change on recruitment.  Isn't this an important time for recruitment?  Are some recruits either changing plans or holding off committing to Hope?  Has anyone heard any comments along that line?

[Mr. Ypsi]

There has been a lot of banter on this site regarding GVW's retirement.  Some say we shouldn't speculate.  Others want a time of mourning.  Still others insist on a national search.  Even though we are talking about replacing a basketball coach at a small D3 school in a rural town of only 35,000 population, I thought I must be missing something as the excitement just isn't kicking in for me.  So, I too went on a national search and have asked people from around the country and the world, for that matter, to chime in. 

I posed this question to several well known people:  "What do you think of the retirement of Glen VanWieren and the national search for a new head basketball coach at Hope College?" 

Here are some of the responses I have received so far:

Joe Biden: "This is a BFD."
Barack Obama: "America needs a Change at Hope."
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad: "They are inexperienced amateurs."
sac: "Maybe we could wait for the ink to dry a little more."
Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"
Clark Gable:  "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn!"
Doug Wentworth: "This calls for some Hudsonville Ice Cream."
Calvin students: "Who cares? Where's your banner?"
Dustin Lance Black: "Hire me, hire me, I just love kinesiology

Amazing!

Especially getting a response from Clark Gable, who's been dead for 50 years!

[realist]

M&g:  Yes, this is the time of year when recruits are making their college decision.  However, I doubt this change is going to have any significant impact on Hope's in coming class.  Considering the stable of talent that Hope has, and has historically been able to attract one will have to look hard to detect any change.  I also doubt there will be any more players dropping from the program than occurs in the normal course of events.  If one or two players change their plans to attend Hope because GVW is gone you may also get one or two guys that come because there is a new guy.

[maroonandgold]

Isn't the timing a big issue?  If it takes very long  to line up the new Hope coach, wouldn't possible recruits or transfers be likely to make decisions in a different direction?

[ChicagoHopeNut]

And a teacher doesn't get added to a faculty roster if his or her job is considered to be nothing more than stuff that "just about anyone with a whistle and basic understanding of biology and nutrition" could do. That's more a description of what an adjunct (or, if you're in the WIAC, an "ad hoc") instructor does.

I recognize that Hope does not consider the position as something "just about anyone" could do. But as a recent graduate who took the Gen Ed Kineseology class I can testify to the fact if all someone taught it was that class and coached they would not need a Masters, yet alone, a PHD.