MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

I have no doubt that adding football at Calvin would entail a change in culture on campus, and supporters of the school will have to expect some cultural change as football is considered. My parents were the type who would likely have never agreed with me on this, but the time has come for Calvin to add football to their roster of sports.

Virtually all the local feeder (Christian) schools now have the sport and Calvin has lost a number of students as a direct consequence of the absence of football. Dordt's recent addition of football is clearly making inroads in West Michigan and Hope has fed off of student athletes for years who would otherwise have come to Calvin. Wheaton currently has a very promising 6'3", 309 lb freshman--and a pretty good student--who likely would be a Knight if gridiron events were part of the fall campus atmosphere.

About a year ago I discussed the issue with a couple of Calvin people (separately), each of whom are employed by the school. Those discussions lead me to believe the following: There is an ongoing debate about whether to bring in fooball, but the proponents of the sport appear to be winning based on reality. (Facts are stubborn things, as John Adams once noted in a closing argument). The administrative chiefs who are reluctant to go forward with such a program are faced with the fact that numbers (and the consequent tuition dollars) are negatively affected by the absence of football on campus. Dordt appears to have enhanced their enrollment as a direct result of their recent introduction of football. There are already donors ready, willing and able to fund the opening of a program at Calvin. The biggest question may be what to do about a stadium. Proponents really want an on-campus stadium because that generates student interest, but Calvin just got done adding a 50 million dollar athletic complex. Spending many millions more for football immediately on the heels of that project makes powers-that-be a bit nervous that some supporters may be upset about the school's emphasis.

There are other concerns but these seem to be the main ones to grapple with. Title IX obviously is an issue but other quality educational institutions seem to be able to handle it so I don't know why Calvin couldn't.

[KnightSlappy]

I'm sure an agreement could be easily reached with EGR and/or GRCHS to use their Football Stadiums until on-campus facilities could be built.

[ziggy]

Obviously we should probably read a lot into the College's decision a couple years back to move homecoming weekend to the fall...

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I'm sure an agreement could be easily reached with EGR and/or GRCHS to use their Football Stadiums until on-campus facilities could be built.

Both of those stadiums are wonderful facilities and would be more than appropriate for MIAA football.  An on-campus stadium at Calvin would be preferable long term but either of those HS stadiums would work in the short term.  Calvin hockey now "rents" space from GRCS rink (the old Jolly Roger) so I'm sure the GRCS and Calvin administrations could work something out for football too.  I am all for Calvin starting football, and until now had not even considered the benefits it might provide to enrollment #'s.  As GRCS is also looking to maintain financial viability in light of declining enrollment, this could help them in a small way as well. 

Also, we'd then be able to choose which sport to throw out for Commissioner's Cup standings and could possibly move closer to breaking Hope's recent stranglehold on it!

[realist]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.  
I can see Calvin adding football if it operates at break even or better, or if the proponents come up with enough deep pockets to assure the college they will pick up any short fall.
If adding football makes the college increase the charges all students face seems very counter productive.  For every student you might add because you now have football you face the prospect of reaching the point another potential student goes elsewhere based on the new costs.  

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.  
I can see Calvin adding football if it operates at break even or better, or if the proponents come up with enough deep pockets to assure the college they will pick up any short fall.
If adding football makes the college increase the charges all students face seems very counter productive.  For every student you might add because you now have football you face the prospect of reaching the point another potential student goes elsewhere based on the new costs.  

I have to believe that the marginal cost of having an additional student on campus is very small, assuming they cover their own dining hall bills.  The dorms are there and heated regardless of whether the rooms have single or double occupancy.  There is no additional classroom cost if 25 students are in seats vs 24 students.  And the profs don't get paid variable compensation based on the number of students they teach.  So I gotta believe most of the cost structure is fixed, not variable, but the revenue structure from tuition receipts is directly proportional to the enrollment. 

Don't forget that football is a revenue generating sport too (right now only men's and women's basketball generate any athletic revenue from ticket sales).  Not to be confused with "profitable", but revenue generating nonetheless, so that would cover at least a portion of the cost of football coaches/equipment/travel etc.  At major universities, the success of the school's football program has some direct bearing on alumni financial support.  I don't think this would be a strong factor at Calvin, although hopefully it would have at least a postive and not negative effect on alumni donations. 

The main issue would be the capital costs associated with building a football stadium, so that's where some named donor would have to come into play. 

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.

Calvin isn't going to have much of a football team if it only has thirty to forty players.

[sflzman]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.

Calvin isn't going to have much of a football team if it only has thirty to forty players.

Although the way Claivn College draws nationally....30-40 Calvin quality athletes could be pretty BA in the MIAA

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.

Calvin isn't going to have much of a football team if it only has thirty to forty players.

Although the way Claivn College draws nationally....30-40 Calvin quality athletes could be pretty BA in the MIAA

Over the course of a season, no amount of bad-assitude is going to make up for having a mere thirty-to-forty players in terms of competing with solid D3 squads on the gridiron. But, since the MIAA is pretty weak in football as compared to other conferences (although Trine has earned a fair amount of respect lately outside of MIAA circles), perhaps your point is not so farfetched.

No offense meant to the MIAA, of course; I'm sure that there's other sports at which you guys collectively rock.

[oldknight]

I don't know Calvin's cost structure, but I know enough about accounting to know that some costs are tied to the actual student being there, and some are there whether you have an additional student or not.  One can't  assume if you add 30 or 40 or more more students each year that all the revenue they generate is going to be available to cover the costs associated with adding football.  
I can see Calvin adding football if it operates at break even or better, or if the proponents come up with enough deep pockets to assure the college they will pick up any short fall.
If adding football makes the college increase the charges all students face seems very counter productive.  For every student you might add because you now have football you face the prospect of reaching the point another potential student goes elsewhere based on the new costs.  

As GS mentioned, there had better be more than 30-40 students added if football becomes a varsity sport. Wheaton has 100 kids on their roster. And it's not just the additional football players who add to tuition revenue. I've been told it is comonly believed that for every athlete added to your school, there is a multiplier effect on enrollment of 1.5. If that assessment is accurate, 150 tuition paying students become a part of the equation when considering whether it is worth adding the sport to your school.  

[Pat Coleman]

30-40 per class is more like it.

[Gregory Sager]

30-40 per class is more like it.

... assuming an extremely high retention rate. Otherwise, you need to bring in more than 30-40 freshman football players per year to maintain the program.

My original point contra Realist was that Calvin wouldn't start off with 30-40 players. The school would announce a couple of years ahead of time that it would be launching a football program. It seems as though all of the schools that start up football announce it far in advance of the actual commencement of the first season. Calvin would probably strive to get twice as many inaugural-season players as that, if not more -- and that would have an immediately positive effect upon start-up costs.

[Mr. Ypsi]

A very interesting discussion - you don't often get to see the thinking going in to adding football.

Happy Calvin Guy is quite correct about marginal costs.  Aside from occasional cumulative effects (having to hire new profs, having to build a new dorm, etc.), one-by-one additional students are virtually all profit.

Title IX shouldn't be a deal-breaker, especially if Calvin is already starting with a +1 advantage in women's sports - and if it is true that 80% of schools are already non-compliant, I wouldn't worry too much.  Besides, they could always drop men's soccer - they have fallen to 7th nationally.   (That's a joke, in case there are any newbies unaware that I'm a soccer coach. )

The stadium issue is more problematic, but could be resolved by just one or two deep-pocketed alums who are a) football fanatics, and/or b) have 12-year-old sons who are Pop Warner stars!

[And, as the MIAA (football) Pickems compiler, it sure would be nice to have a clean 4-game slate once the conference season begins - adding only a national game or two would be so much easier than scrounging for 4 or 5! ]

[NW Hope Fan]

For the short term, to keep the games on campus; what about goal posts and hash marks in the infield of the track like a lot of other facilities? Are there any stands there now? Could other stands be built or brought in? Just a thought...

Also (and I'm surprised Pat hasn't mentioned this) this might be a great discussion to share in the football forum. Lots of poster over there who may not be trolling the basketball room in early October.

[GoKnights68]

President Byker is about 62 years old I believe.   Perhaps it will be a more of a possibility when he retires as President of Calvin.

A lot of it is up to the big donors.  Will they continue to donate to Calvin if Calvin institutes a football program? 




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