MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

My original quote assumed Calvin would add 30 to 40 football type students a year, thereby making a pool of players 100+ over a period of years. 

However, I just don"'t see football at Calvin starting at a cost neutral basis.  Frankly I wonder how many D3 schools have "cost neutral" football programs?  Do Hope's, Trine" et. al.  football programs perform above break even or are they subsidized?  In today's economy (and all the time with us Dutch types) if adding football is going to increase our tuition and fees we aren't going to be overly excited to welcome football. 

If tuition would be negatively impacted by adding football, I would not support its addition. As previously mentioned, I have been led to believe that there are donors ready, willing, and able to fund the start-up costs for a football program at Calvin. If true, students would not be asked to pony up extra tuition dollars to support the sport. Suitable arrangements would have to be made to keep football revenue neutral vis-a-vis tuition. It's my understanding that this is one of the issues that needs to be addressed but I don't think this would be a difficult problem

[Flying Dutch Fan]

A confounding factor would be that Dougie-fresh would have to decide if he still wanted to be the voice of Hope football, or if he would switch to his true love and announce games at Calvin.  WWDWD?

I thought (maybe just a really strong HOPE) that Dougie-fresh "retired" from football broadcasting awhile back.  He certainly hasn't been doing them on local Holland radio for the last few years.

Are Hope football games carried on WFUR?

[northb]

Did not know that--I guess I would have had to actually listen to Hope Football games to know that!

[ziggy]

What are the limitations that keep the MIAA, and Hope in particular, from gaining the kind of respect nationally that they enjoy in many other sports?

Since Calvin and Hope are so similar athletically I would assume that the Football Knights would face the same challenges. Thanks for indulging me in my ignorance.

[realist]

Presently Calvin has reduced non teaching staff and services to offset the decreased revenue caused by reduced enrollment.  Calvin targets, and is capped at 4200 students.  If enrollment goes up one would assume the first thing restored would be previously reduced staff and services.  One can't assume that any or even a significant portion of the increased revenue from additional students goes to offset the costs incurred by adding football, should it get added.  
I don't doubt for a minute that Calvin could find the donors to meet the start-up costs for football.  What I am not so sure about is the willingness of one or more donors to agree to underwrite the football program to the point they would guarantee to pick up any difference between revenue generated and costs incurrred.  
While I think Calvin may be exploring adding football to see if it would help with student recruiting many are the hurdles that must be cleared before it happens.  A much easier way to increase enrollment is to decrease the costs not add to them.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Weighing the costs of football is a very tricky question.  I dare say that if one looks ONLY at direct fb revenue vs. direct fb costs, probably every d3 school is in the red (even St. John's, though with average attendance of 8,000, they MIGHT be the exception).

However, fb may also generate revenues in indirect ways.  While it is almost impossible to pin down, most anecdotal evidence suggests that successful (at least) fb programs increase alumni giving and student enrollment.  Extra tuition is also generated by the mere existence of a fb program - many if not most of the fb players themselves would probably not otherwise be enrolled, and undoubtedly there are some non playing students who would not attend a school with no fb (those fall Saturdays are an important aspect of the college experience for some students).

[hope1]

yes wfur still  carries   hope football  games   i listened last week

[SKOT]

My initial thought to the cost neutral issue was that there is no way any d3 program is cost neutral.  Way back in the mid 2000's when I was at Hope, they always used to spew on and on about how your tuition dollars only paid for 2/3 of your education (though the real number was about 76%, but I digress.)  Since contributions and state/federal funding to private colleges/universities are down, how could a football team be cost neutral over the long run if tuition payments don't even cover the cost of "your education?"

[realist]

Cost neutral would simply imply if operating a football program costs $400k a year for fields, staff, travel etc. the program would need to generate $400k to be neutral on cost.  Anything less than 400K means you subsidize the football program, anything more than 400k would be profit.
There is no reason to assume that present Calvin donors are going to increase their giving simply because Calvin adds football.  It would be 4 years from the start of football before the pool of alums would include individuals that may or may not give simply because Calvin added football.  It would take years to build a pool of persons with a history or tradition of football Saturdays.
One more problem with thinking adding football is immediately going to increase giving to the college is the fact recent grads are the group least likely to respond to fund requests. 

[realist]

D3news has Hope at #14 preseason.   It will be interesting to see how this compares with D3hoops preseason poll. 

[northb]

D3news has Hope at #14 preseason.   It will be interesting to see how this compares with D3hoops preseason poll. 

In football or basketball?

[hope1]

basketball

[sac]

To stay consistent with past years posts, I'd like to congratulate the Calvin men's golf team on winning the 2010 MIAA Championship, their first in school history.  Calvin won the final event of the season and closed a 19 shot gap with Trine.

It was a tremendously competitive MIAA season, with the final margin being just 2 shots, and only 37 between 1st and 5th place Olivet.  I'm almost certain the 2 shots is the closest margin in MIAA history.

Hope and Olivet had won every MIAA championship but one since 1978, Olivet 17, Hope 13, Albion 1

http://miaa.org/mgo/

[Titan Q]

D3news has Hope at #14 preseason.   It will be interesting to see how this compares with D3hoops preseason poll. 

I tried to sort out my ballot today and came out with Hope at about #15...

http://www.d3boards.com/index.php?topic=4097.5670

When I look at the big picture nationally, it seems clear that Hope is a preseason Top 25 team.

[OC_SID]

@ SAC -- The two-shot margin ties for the closest finish.

The finish for Calvin was helped greatly by a hole-in-one by a golfer on a par 3.

Speaking of golf, Saint Mary's won the MIAA women's title over Olivet. Pretty incredible that both Saint Mary's and Olivet golfers represented the entire All-MIAA first-team.