MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

There was a big dip between '01-02 and '02-03. I blame ziggy for that.

The stench of my arrival had a devastating impact. It hasn't been made public, but it was the real impetus behind a total renovation of the facilities and the construction of the new arena. You all knew the "Master Plan" line was a bunch of bunk but as Paul Harvey would say, now you know the rest of the story.

[Knightmare]

When you look at the Calvin attendance figures one needs to factor in what was going on.  Attendance fell off once the old gym was shut down, and games moved to other sites.  Notice the drop of nearly 500/game in 07-08.  The next year the attendance spiked thanks to the "new arena", but that appears to have worn off.  I think some "fans" just got out of the habit of going to games, and for some others the closing of the circle drive, and the loss of close in parking spaces just made it more of a hassle to attend.  
IMHO winning some games early in the season would have a tremendous impact in fostering the idea it is worth one's time to go watch Calvin play.  By the time conference play begins most people have made the decision Calvin has a rather mediocre product offering.   For the kool-aid drinkers that means winning games early would fill the seats.  Until this, combined with beating Hope regularly, occurs whining about attendance is futile.  

I think realist makes some great points here.  While Calvin has been alright the last few years, the team never screamed "We're going to Salem".  If you've got a top-notch product on the floor people will show up.  Now don't confuse what I'm saying as Calvin is or has been bad, BUT they haven't done anything to distinguish themselves from multiple other similar small college programs in the area.

One only needs to look at the ebb and flow of support the Detroit Pistons have had from 2000-2010.  When they were going to NBA finals and Conference Finals they were a very hot ticket and that support has waned recently along with their record and competitiveness.  Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

It is also a different era than the 1980's or 1990's with many other activities and interests competing for students and the general public's attention and that no doubt contributes as well.  Pretty sure though that if Calvin puts a National Championship contender on the floor that comes out and plays like it from the opening tip of the season, and does so convincingly and consistently, you will see attendance #'s start to climb.  

Unfortunately our student section has never been as faithful as the Dew Crew nor has the older age segment of supporters.  A lot more things to pull people away from games in Grand Rapids than over in Holland.

[realist]

2010-2011 pre conference games  4-4
2009-2010 pre conference games  5-6   
2008-2009 pre conference games  5-5   
2007-2008 pre conference games  5-5   

Whats the word I am looking for?  You know the one when you keep doing something over and over and expect different results.   

[calvin_grad]

I definitely feel a dropoff in student section support now vs 15-20 yrs ago.   

I was at the home opener this year and was surprised to see that the student section was nearly full. 

The student section is where I've notice the biggest difference in the last 15 to 20 years.  I went to a home game last year and counted 20 students there at tip-off.  Maybe this year will be different.  It would be nice to see. 

[KnightSlappy]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

[sac]

Tonight's game

Spring Arbor @ Albion --links on miaa.org, there should be video from the parthenon of the MIAA.

The Cougers are 7-6 on the season but 3 of those losses have come to higher level competition in Western Michigan, Northern Michigan and Grand Valley State.  It will be interesting to see if Albion can ride the high of their win over Carthage to another win tonight.


SAU has won the last two of the series

10--SAU 73 Albion 53
09--SAU 70 Albion 60
08--Albion 78 SAU 56
07--SAU 79 Albion 58
06--Albion 65 SAU 54
05--Albion 78 SAU 76

Spring Arbor is 5-2 vs the MIAA the last 3 seasons including this one.  They'll play Adrian later this month.

[sac]

This was posted somewhere else......Taylor University and their "Silent Night" game

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Never-heard-of-Taylor-University-s-Silent-Night-?urn=ncaab-295229

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Calvin's attendance looks worse because it plays in such a large arena (which is in part a testament to the fact they can fill it at least once a year , sorry, I had to do that) so the place may look empty even though the number in attendance is quite high as evidenced by Calvin's annual spot in the top 3 of attendance.

Van Noord has roughly the same number of seats as the old gym.  (in fact I think its a couple dozen less)

Don't even get started with this Blah Blah Blah about Calvin's arena looking empty...how do you think a 3031-seat arena in Alma looks when just over 400 show up???

The Alma arena looks really really empty. That fact doesn't change a thing about Calvin's situation. If you have an arena that seats 4,700 but only are getting about 1,500/game (a number I expect will go up as the season progresses) the place looks pretty empty.

[KnightSlappy]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

Calvin has an all-time winning percentage of .673 (heading into this year, I believe). That's good for 3rd in D3.

An 18.7-9.4 record (Calvin's eight year -- minus '04-05 -- average) is a 0.665 percentage (would be seventh all-time), just a shade below the all-time pace (19-9 would be a shade above).

Is that win percentage going to get you highly ranked in any one year? Probably not, but it would make you one of the premier programs in D3 if you could sustain it for years.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2011/D3.pdf

[ChicagoHopeNut]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

Knightmare can correct me if I am wrong. But the way I interpreted his comment was Calvin has not been at top-10/top-15 level it was at in the early years of the 2000s. So while Calvin is still a strong team it's not been a team most of us would see making a Final Four run as the last few seasons have begun.

[Knightmare]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

I'm not complaining at all.  Calvin has been very consistently above average.  Basically what I'm saying is that a yearly 18-9 or 19-10 record, while alright, doesn't scream to the fan base "you better be at these games or you may miss out on something special".  That in conjunction with not having a student section that provides the atmosphere of the Dew Crew can translate into a game experience that is a pretty subdued environment.  Not what you'd expect or want when going to a basketball game.

Just to reiterate, that isn't a complaint at all.  Just sharing my personal observations, albeit a few too many years and miles removed from the Calvin Campus.  If you told me that Calvin will continue to go 19-10 or 19-9 every year with a trip to Salem and the final four, and a national championship chance, sprinkled in every 5-8 years I'd sign-up for that in a heartbeat.  My point was just some reasoning why, unfortunately, Calvin isn't pulling in fans from the larger community or older alumni base and also students.  Calvin's student section attendance could also be hurt because of supply and demand.  At Hope the supply and demand of student seating is a bit tighter than the supply and demand at Calvin.  Calvin's physical student section seating area is so large that they never have worry about the availability of getting in and getting a seat (except for Hope game) thus don't remain as feverishly committed as their counterparts in Holland.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

Calvin has an all-time winning percentage of .673 (heading into this year, I believe). That's good for 3rd in D3.

An 18.7-9.4 record (Calvin's eight year -- minus '04-05 -- average) is a 0.665 percentage (would be seventh all-time), just a shade below the all-time pace (19-9 would be a shade above).

Is that win percentage going to get you highly ranked in any one year? Probably not, but it would make you one of the premier programs in D3 if you could sustain it for years.

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/2011/D3.pdf

No matter how you slice it, Calvin's basketball attendance ranks higher than their basketball performance on the court.  So I don't think the team unduly suffers from lack of overall fan support, and I certainly wouldn't call it apathy, even though it may seem that way compared to years past.  That said, I would like to see more from the students in terms of numbers, noise, and creativity.

[Knightmare]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

Knightmare can correct me if I am wrong. But the way I interpreted his comment was Calvin has not been at top-10/top-15 level it was at in the early years of the 2000s. So while Calvin is still a strong team it's not been a team most of us would see making a Final Four run as the last few seasons have begun.

You are correct sir.  See my explanation post just above.

[Knightmare]

Calvin hasn't dipped to that low of a level but they have been just an above average small college team in recent years with the exception of early 2000's (and national championship) and the other unexpected trip to Salem in mid 2000's (that not many saw coming).

I'm can't quite tell if you're complaining that Calvin is only "above average" and not a perennial Final Four contender, or if you're saying they've only been a smidge above average.

Average record over past 8 seasons (avoiding the early 2000's): 19.8 - 9.1.
Not including the "unexpected" trip to Salem year: 18.7 - 9.4

Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible.

Knightmare can correct me if I am wrong. But the way I interpreted his comment was Calvin has not been at top-10/top-15 level it was at in the early years of the 2000s. So while Calvin is still a strong team it's not been a team most of us would see making a Final Four run as the last few seasons have begun.

You are correct sir.  See my explanation post just above.

This does raise an interesting question for the Calvin fan base, or the fan base of any team in general.

Would you rather have a top-10 ranked team every year that has national championship aspirations but never does win a national championship or would you rather have a top-30 or 50 ranked team every year with a final four and national championship sprinkled in every 10 years or so?

Myself, I'll take Calvin just the way it is with a couple final fours and a National Championship every 10-15 years and then some years where you might not quite make it into the top-25.

That just means we are due and hopefully the clock is ticking down to National championship #3 in the near future  .

[realist]

KS:  "Woe is me. 19-9 is so terrible."

That depends.  If you were expected to be a 15-13 team it might be viewed as a great year.  However, if you had the talent to be a 25-3 or even a 23-5 team it might be considered disappointing.  Each of us has an opinion.  For the 8 years you used IMO  2 years Calvin was very disappointing, 4 years they disappointed, 1 year as expected, and 1 year exceeded expectations.  
Just because the administration may be satisfied with 19-9 doesn't mean that I have to find it acceptable.