MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[almcguirejr]

I doubt anything can be broken down more than Hope's defense. Have they hired Greg Robinson as a consultant?

+k

[BogeyMan]

I find it interesting Hope posters are not blaming the officials.  Typically after a Hope/Calvin game there are several posts telling us how bad the officials were.

+k for the stripes

[HopeConvert]

I find it interesting Hope posters are not blaming the officials.  Typically after a Hope/Calvin game there are several posts telling us how bad the officials were.

+k for the stripes

The officials are not responsible for Hope losing, but giving them karma is a bit much. Their incompetence was so broad as to negate itself.

[hoopdreams]

Bogey- I thought the officiating was horrendous at times but it didn't impact the outcome of the game.  Salt-n-pepper hair called the first half like it was a middle school girls game and allowed himself to get into "shouting" (not actual shouting of course but attempts to validate his calls and interaction a good official is above) matches with Neil. The "heftier" official was continually out of position in transition and blew his whistle for fouls that he had no chance of actually seeing. Unless he has x-ray vision, he assumed a lot.  Like most games the officiating, for 40 minutes, was adequate at times and average at best for both teams.  Not a job I envy......

[HopeConvert]

OK, I'll try to resist the temptation to be glib, and I certainly won't gloat, but we got a taste last night of what the rest of the season could look like for Calvin.  The Knights came out with some fire and purpose, and, although Hope knocked them back on their heels a number of times, they showed the  ability and maturity (maybe for the first or second time this season) to weather the storm.  It's clear to me that there are enough offensive weapons to compensate for a dreadful night from the usually dominant Snikkers and the often-contributing Powell and DeBoer. 
It was senior night last night -- but there is talent aplenty in the underclassmen.  Many of us are still waiting for the full emergence of Jordan Brink as a key offensive contributor, and let's hope that happens as soon as the Knights get a true point guard into the rotation.  As oldknight has mentioned, Kruis is steadily developing into a force with which to be reckoned.  A Hope poster asked if that was as well as Calvin can play.  I strongly suspect it is not.

So you're saying that you suspect they can shoot better than 70% from 3-point range, better than 85% from the line (17-19 in the second half), while outrebounding their opponent by more than 25?

[northb]

So you're saying that you suspect they can shoot better than 70% from 3-point range, better than 85% from the line (17-19 in the second half), while outrebounding their opponent by more than 25?

Well, they do play Kalamazoo next!     

[sac]

I doubt anything can be broken down more than Hope's defense. Have they hired Greg Robinson as a consultant?

Well, I didn't see anyone on the hope bench doing this......



....that is a grown man rubbing a stuffed animal in the face of a 20 year old kid who just recovered a fumble.

[sac]

I find it interesting Hope posters are not blaming the officials.  Typically after a Hope/Calvin game there are several posts telling us how bad the officials were.

+k for the stripes

There were only 38 fouls called in the game, and considering the last 8 went against Hope when they were just trying to stay in the game it was pretty much even and the quality of the the calls was mostly a non-factor.

For a game with 124 shots, 38 fouls seems really, really low.......which probably says more about the defense played than the quality of the officiating.


fwiw, I think most of the calls that drew protest came at the end of the game when it really didn't matter.  Krombeen's last foul as an example.


Also, I'm not sure 2 of the 3 officials have ever worked a Hope/Calvin game, might have to look into that.  But they are human too and get caught up in the excitement just as much as the fans who want to see things with their colored glasses on.

[wiz]

Nice victory for the Knights last night.  I have seen  most of their games and this is a glimpse of what may be in store for the next few years.  Very talented underclassmen coming into the program.

The game has been covered well but I still don't understand how attendance figures are calculated.  I arrived at the fieldhouse just as the women's game was finishing.  The signs on the door said the place was sold out.   Today the box scores for the women's game says attendance was 2,310 and the box score for men's game shows attendance at 3,653.  Quite a disparity.  Just curious for what the system is in counting attendance at each game? 

[sac]

Nice victory for the Knights last night.  I have seen  most of their games and this is a glimpse of what may be in store for the next few years.  Very talented underclassmen coming into the program.

The game has been covered well but I still don't understand how attendance figures are calculated.  I arrived at the fieldhouse just as the women's game was finishing.  The signs on the door said the place was sold out.   Today the box scores for the women's game says attendance was 2,310 and the box score for men's game shows attendance at 3,653.  Quite a disparity.  Just curious for what the system is in counting attendance at each game? 

For double-headers like this one, the women's attendance is counted at halftime of the women's game I believe.

[sac]

Also, I'm not sure 2 of the 3 officials have ever worked a Hope/Calvin game, might have to look into that.  But they are human too and get caught up in the excitement just as much as the fans who want to see things with their colored glasses on.

Found the answer rather quickly, all 3 officials worked last years first MIAA Hope/Calvin game at Calvin.

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/0910/caho0106.htm

[maroonandgold]

OK, I'll try to resist the temptation to be glib, and I certainly won't gloat, but we got a taste last night of what the rest of the season could look like for Calvin.  The Knights came out with some fire and purpose, and, although Hope knocked them back on their heels a number of times, they showed the  ability and maturity (maybe for the first or second time this season) to weather the storm.  It's clear to me that there are enough offensive weapons to compensate for a dreadful night from the usually dominant Snikkers and the often-contributing Powell and DeBoer. 
It was senior night last night -- but there is talent aplenty in the underclassmen.  Many of us are still waiting for the full emergence of Jordan Brink as a key offensive contributor, and let's hope that happens as soon as the Knights get a true point guard into the rotation.  As oldknight has mentioned, Kruis is steadily developing into a force with which to be reckoned.  A Hope poster asked if that was as well as Calvin can play.  I strongly suspect it is not.

Are Powell and Brink not "true point guards"? Interesting, because Tom Cleary said the same thing on the tv broadcast last night. With Salo graduating, I thought Powell and Brink were Calvin's point guards of the future.

No, neither are true point guards. I'd say Brink more than Powell due to the fact Powell has more of a shooting mindset rather than a "setting others up" mindset. Brink is more of a true scorer than distributor but he's done well in the stead of the injured Salo and missing Rietema during the beginning of the season especially as a freshman starting all games so far this season. I would suspect each will get a boost in the points per game department once Salo is fully back and Rietema gets some minutes, then they will have to worry less about taking care of the ball and can focus on creating their own shots.

The speculation on the effect of Salo interests me because I agree that Calvin so far is really weak in depth at the guard positions--particularly point guard.  If Salo agains reached the point of being a starter, who would sit?  My choice would be to continue starting Brink and sit Powell.  Although Powell can really light up the scoreboard when he is hot, he looses the ball far too frequently.  He might be more effective as a back-up as he was last year.  He and Snikkers both seem to dribble  into trouble and easy steals far too often.  I find it interesting and significant that both Rodtz, Snikkers, and especially Schnyders have frequently been needed to bring the ball up court.  With stronger subs at guard that would not be as necessary.

[goodknight]

OK, I'll try to resist the temptation to be glib, and I certainly won't gloat, but we got a taste last night of what the rest of the season could look like for Calvin.  The Knights came out with some fire and purpose, and, although Hope knocked them back on their heels a number of times, they showed the  ability and maturity (maybe for the first or second time this season) to weather the storm.  It's clear to me that there are enough offensive weapons to compensate for a dreadful night from the usually dominant Snikkers and the often-contributing Powell and DeBoer.  
It was senior night last night -- but there is talent aplenty in the underclassmen.  Many of us are still waiting for the full emergence of Jordan Brink as a key offensive contributor, and let's hope that happens as soon as the Knights get a true point guard into the rotation.  As oldknight has mentioned, Kruis is steadily developing into a force with which to be reckoned.  A Hope poster asked if that was as well as Calvin can play.  I strongly suspect it is not.

So you're saying that you suspect they can shoot better than 70% from 3-point range, better than 85% from the line (17-19 in the second half), while outrebounding their opponent by more than 25?

Not precisely, HC.  I'm saying that they can take better care of the ball and defend far better than they did last night  Whether they win by 4 or 14 or 24 doesn't much interest me.  But if Snikkers and Powell and Brink and DeBoer are firing on most cylinders, they don't need 58 points from Danny, Brent and Brad.  
Of course, I know that Hope can play significantly better than they did last night, too, although I'm not pushing on the FD to prove it.

[HopeConvert]

OK, I'll try to resist the temptation to be glib, and I certainly won't gloat, but we got a taste last night of what the rest of the season could look like for Calvin.  The Knights came out with some fire and purpose, and, although Hope knocked them back on their heels a number of times, they showed the  ability and maturity (maybe for the first or second time this season) to weather the storm.  It's clear to me that there are enough offensive weapons to compensate for a dreadful night from the usually dominant Snikkers and the often-contributing Powell and DeBoer.  
It was senior night last night -- but there is talent aplenty in the underclassmen.  Many of us are still waiting for the full emergence of Jordan Brink as a key offensive contributor, and let's hope that happens as soon as the Knights get a true point guard into the rotation.  As oldknight has mentioned, Kruis is steadily developing into a force with which to be reckoned.  A Hope poster asked if that was as well as Calvin can play.  I strongly suspect it is not.

So you're saying that you suspect they can shoot better than 70% from 3-point range, better than 85% from the line (17-19 in the second half), while outrebounding their opponent by more than 25?

Not precisely, HC.  I'm saying that they can take better care of the ball and defend far better than they did last night  Whether they win by 4 or 14 or 24 doesn't much interest me.  But if Snikkers and Powell and Brink and DeBoer are firing on most cylinders, they don't need 58 points from Danny, Brent and Brad.  
Of course, I know that Hope can play significantly better than they did last night, too, although I'm not pushing on the FD to prove it.

This is an interesting claim. Calvin had 20 turnovers in the game - above their season average - but as OK pointed out, this is in part due to how aggressively they attacked the basket. The Knights had 60 shots - right about their season median. If Powell and Brink get more shots, Shuster and Rodts get less (Schnyders is another story). I thought Calvin played exceptionally well last night: it is, after all, their largest margin of victory against Hope in 17 years. They put up 95 points, and I suspect the most ardent Calvin fan wouldn't have dared predict that. Basketball has a zero sum quality to it: you can't really fire on all cylinders. You tend to give up some things in order to get other things. What Calvin did so well last night was take advantage of the matchup problems that were in their favor. Hope never adjusted well to that, or weren't able to. Snikkers and Powell and Brink could do more statistically, but they would be taking away from the others in doing so.

All this said, there was actually one Calvin player last night who impressed me more than the others, and that was Snikkers. He sees the floor very well, keeps his teammates involved, breaks down defenses when he drives, plays under control (unlike the aforementioned Schnyders), and often gets teammates in a position where they can get an easy assist. He's strong and fearless. I think KVS should put him on the bench more.

[goodknight]

OK, I'll try to resist the temptation to be glib, and I certainly won't gloat, but we got a taste last night of what the rest of the season could look like for Calvin.  The Knights came out with some fire and purpose, and, although Hope knocked them back on their heels a number of times, they showed the  ability and maturity (maybe for the first or second time this season) to weather the storm.  It's clear to me that there are enough offensive weapons to compensate for a dreadful night from the usually dominant Snikkers and the often-contributing Powell and DeBoer.  
It was senior night last night -- but there is talent aplenty in the underclassmen.  Many of us are still waiting for the full emergence of Jordan Brink as a key offensive contributor, and let's hope that happens as soon as the Knights get a true point guard into the rotation.  As oldknight has mentioned, Kruis is steadily developing into a force with which to be reckoned.  A Hope poster asked if that was as well as Calvin can play.  I strongly suspect it is not.

So you're saying that you suspect they can shoot better than 70% from 3-point range, better than 85% from the line (17-19 in the second half), while outrebounding their opponent by more than 25?

Not precisely, HC.  I'm saying that they can take better care of the ball and defend far better than they did last night  Whether they win by 4 or 14 or 24 doesn't much interest me.  But if Snikkers and Powell and Brink and DeBoer are firing on most cylinders, they don't need 58 points from Danny, Brent and Brad.  
Of course, I know that Hope can play significantly better than they did last night, too, although I'm not pushing on the FD to prove it.

This is an interesting claim. Calvin had 20 turnovers in the game - above their season average - but as OK pointed out, this is in part due to how aggressively they attacked the basket. The Knights had 60 shots - right about their season median. If Powell and Brink get more shots, Shuster and Rodts get less (Schnyders is another story). I thought Calvin played exceptionally well last night: it is, after all, their largest margin of victory against Hope in 17 years. They put up 95 points, and I suspect the most ardent Calvin fan wouldn't have dared predict that. Basketball has a zero sum quality to it: you can't really fire on all cylinders. You tend to give up some things in order to get other things. What Calvin did so well last night was take advantage of the matchup problems that were in their favor. Hope never adjusted well to that, or weren't able to. Snikkers and Powell and Brink could do more statistically, but they would be taking away from the others in doing so.

All this said, there was actually one Calvin player last night who impressed me more than the others, and that was Snikkers. He sees the floor very well, keeps his teammates involved, breaks down defenses when he drives, plays under control (unlike the aforementioned Schnyders), and often gets teammates in a position where they can get an easy assist. He's strong and fearless. I think KVS should put him on the bench more.

I know you are a very bright guy.  You teach at a respected institution, and you graduated from a great college and a first-rate university.  I didn't say "all cylinders."  I said "most cylinders."  And if you think that was a good representation of Tom Snikkers' game last night, you need to spend more time watching Calvin basketball.   You might find yourself in a happier zone.