MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Civic Minded]

AHF-

I'm sorry you feel that way about the Calvin and Hope programs.  It certainly isn't unearned.  I am one Hope fan who won't be pegged that way, however.  I don't say it much, but I have always had respect for the Bulldog program.  Your teams have played fantastic defense lately (not just this year), and I'm always nervous about games at Adrian, just like I am about games at Calvin.  Knight2Day was wrong to call Adrian bottom-feeders, as you have pointed out.

I sense quite a bit of frustration with their own program, and taking it out on the last team to hurt them is an immature response.  You have a right to feel insulted (because that was insulting), but please don't transfer one person's sentiment toward Adrian to the rest of his school's fans...and especially not to another school's fans.  I hate to be misrepresented, especially when I am somehow perceived to be represented by my rival.  Remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I thank the Adrian men's basketball team for showing their ability, depth, and talent in beating Hope's rival.  Just don't expect me to be quite this nice on Wednesday night.      

Well said, Erm.  Ditto from me.  I still have vivid memories of Adrian knocking Hope out of the MIAA tournament some where around 2004, and am also very nervous about playing Adrian, especially lately.  Adrian's defense is stifling and frustrating (compliments!), and they certainly have earned my respect.

Thank you AHF, for representing Adrian here.  Please continue to contirbute.  Without representation from many schools this board loses something.

[KnightSlappy]

7-8.  How does the kool-aid taste now?    

Just fine.

Makes me *expletive* sick.  7-8? Really? The whole "young team" excuse is really running thin. Adrian has 3 upperclassmen. Calvin has 4. Calvin has beaten quality squads in Olivet and Hope and have lost to perennial bottom feeders in Adrian and Kalamazoo. I'm going to eat a piece of humble pie and say that Adrian is a quality ball club now. They have a quality defense, and they played with a lot of heart tonight. Kalamazoo has been on fire since they ebat Calvin and have absolutely put the wood  to their last few opponents. Calvin has more talent and has played with about as much heart as a brick. Calvin played a lot of selfish basketball tonight...and I STILL don't understand the substitutions....This isn't 7th grade, everyone doesn't need to play the same amount.

I implore you not to judge the quality of any team based on their "perennial" record. Grace Bible is a good team. Adrian appears to be a good team. Yes, Calvin "should" beat these teams, but they're only one game back in the standings; it's early. Calvin has shown they can beat (and lose) to anyone.

It's not "acceptable", but the world is not ending either.

I don't know where you are coming with the perenial bottom feeders with Adrian.  No Adrian has not won the confernce title, but they have stayed in that 3-5 place since '01, been in 7 semi-final games and played in two championship games.

Agreed. If you're talking "perennial" then Olivet is definitely more of a "bottom feeder" than Adrian. Last year was Olivet's best finish in a very long time, and they were "only" 8-6. Adrian was 9-5.

There are good things happening in the MIAA right now. Coaches White and Gifford appear to be doing good things with the Olivet and Adrian programs, Albion has proven time and again that they're not falling off the map, and contrary to what some Calvin fans appear to be thinking, the Knights aren't going into the toilet. This is what good conferences look like. This is what the CCIW and WIAC are like every weekend. Several good teams, and anyone can beat anyone.

The MIAA isn't "there" yet, but the non-conference record suggests overall improvement.

[sac]

Wednesday nights Adrian at Hope game presents an interesting statistical oddity.  The best shooting team vs #8, the best defensive team vs #8.

FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGES
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Hope College........ 15    457   925  .494
8.Adrian College...... 14    276   713  .387


FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Adrian College...... 14    244   646  .378
8.Hope College........ 15    414   868  .477

[sac]

The MIAA isn't "there" yet, but the non-conference record suggests overall improvement.

I've seen four of the 8 so far, and I agree there is improvement, I'm actually more disappointed the league didn't do better in the non-conference.

Maybe teams have rapidly improved since December but the quality of play I've seen thus far suggests everyone should have done better in the non-conference portion of the schedule.

[sflzman]

7-8.  How does the kool-aid taste now?   

Makes me *expletive* sick.  7-8? Really? The whole "young team" excuse is really running thin. Adrian has 3 upperclassmen. Calvin has 4. Calvin has beaten quality squads in Olivet and Hope and have lost to perennial bottom feeders in Adrian and Kalamazoo. I'm going to eat a piece of humble pie and say that Adrian is a quality ball club now. They have a quality defense, and they played with a lot of heart tonight. Kalamazoo has been on fire since they ebat Calvin and have absolutely put the wood  to their last few opponents. Calvin has more talent and has played with about as much heart as a brick. Calvin played a lot of selfish basketball tonight...and I STILL don't understand the substitutions....This isn't 7th grade, everyone doesn't need to play the same amount.

I don't know where you are coming with the perenial bottom feeders with Adrian.  No Adrian has not won the confernce title, but they have stayed in that 3-5 place since '01, been in 7 semi-final games and played in two championship games.  No this is not the highest number of appearances but they only trail calvin, hope & albion in that time span.  It is your attitude that thinks that nobody else is worth a **** if they are not from calvin or  hope that has people hate your programs.  Every loss comes with an excuse.  (My favoriete from all-time is when Adrian beat hoope at Adrian and VanWieren said it was Adrian's great free throw defense after they struggled from the free throw line saying that was due to supposedly someone turned off the the light in their office while someone was at the FT line).  Adrian has been a team that has not had the consistency to win a title but with a break here or there  could of taken the next step.  From now on why don't you actually take a step back realize this is an 8 team conference and not just 2. 

1951   Albion (8-2)
1952   Hope (9-1)
1953   Hope (11-2)
1954   Calvin (12-2)
1955   Adrian, Calvin (12-1)
1956    Calvin (12-2)
1957   Albion, Hope (10-4)
1958   Hope (13-1)
1959   Hope (13-1)
1960      Hope (14-0)
1961   Calvin (12-0)
1962    Kalamazoo, Hope (10-2)
1963    Hope (12-0)
1964   Calvin (11-1)
1965   Hope (10-2)
1966    Calvin (11-1)
1967   Kalamazoo, Hope (10-2)
1968   Hope (10-2)
1969    Calvin (11-1)
1970       Calvin (11-1)
1971    Olivet, Calvin (10-2)
1972    Olivet (12-0)
1973    Olivet, Calvin (8-4)
1974    Calvin (12-0)
1975   Calvin (12-0)
1976   Calvin (10-2)
1977   Calvin (9-3)
1978   Alma, Albion (9-3)
1979    Albion (11-1)
1980      Calvin (11-1)
1981    Albion, Calvin, Hope (9-3)
1982    Hope (10-2)
1983   Hope (11-1)
1984    Hope (12-0)
1985   Hope (11-1)
1986   Calvin (10-2)
1987    Hope (11-1)
1988   Hope (10-2)
1989    Calvin (10-2)
1990      Calvin (12-0)
1991    Hope (12-0)
1992    Calvin (12-0)
1993    Calvin (11-1)
1994    Calvin (11-1)
1995    Hope (12-0)
1996    Hope (11-1)
1997    Hope (12-0)
1998    Hope (10-2)
1999    Calvin, Hope (10-4)
2000      Calvin (14-0)
2001   Calvin (10-2)
2002   Calvin (9-3)
2003   Albion, Hope (10-2)
2004   Hope (10-2)
2005   Albion (12-2)
2006   Calvin (13-1)
2007   Hope (13-1)
2008   Hope (13-1)
2009   Calvin (12-2)
2010   Calvin (12-2)

Sorry, my reading glasses are a bit fogged up, but how many times has neither Calvin or Hope finished at least sharing the league title? That might be the reason why their fans get frustrated.

I said we don't have the titles but are always when it comes down to it facturing into the final outcome.  You are the reason that fans with respect like fdf, sac, erm,  civicminded to name a few get a bad name.  Read what I sid then make a response that doesn't further make you look like an ass

I also have that impression thatmost Calvin and Hope fans are arrogant, annoying and over-cocky, you look at this season for example snd Hope is in a 4-way tie for first, where Calvin is 5th, one game ahead of Alma...this league has had a majority of championships got to Calvin and Hope, but you can't tell me the rest of the league isn't a factor...

[northb]

Wednesday nights Adrian at Hope game presents an interesting statistical oddity.  The best shooting team vs #8, the best defensive team vs #8.

FIELD GOAL PERCENTAGES
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Hope College........ 15    457   925  .494
8.Adrian College...... 14    276   713  .387


FIELD GOAL PCT DEFENSE
# Team                  G     FG   FGA   Pct
--------------------------------------------
1.Adrian College...... 14    244   646  .378
8.Hope College........ 15    414   868  .477

Now don't go throwing facts into the mix.  You must be from an arrogant team!

[sac]

I also have that impression thatmost Calvin and Hope fans are arrogant, annoying and over-cocky,

This hasn't been my experience with this league at all.  There is no shortage of annoying, arrogant, over-cocky attitudes from any of the other schools in this league.  The difference is Hope and Calvin have more fans.

Unfortunately when you deal with Private school kids, you frequently get these kinds of attitudes.


I'll also add that I find it kind of funny how much time and energy others schools fans waste trying to figure out if a Hope or Calvin fan is arrogant, cocky, annoying or all 3.....especially when mirrors are in the room.

Spend a game or two sitting among fans of another school in a game as a neutral and it will become pretty obvious very fast.

[sac]

The second most played rivalry in the MIAA is Albion vs Kalamazoo (1st is Hope v K).  189 games with Albion leading 104-85.

I can't recall these two squaring off with first place on the line recently but it seems like it may have happened sooner than I'm remembering.


The most recent games...
10--Albion 64 Kzoo 55
10--Albion 98 Kzoo 73
09--Albion 64 Kzoo 32
09--Albion 78 Kzoo 70
08--Kzoo 82 Albion 74
08--Albion 80 Kzoo 54

For  K coach Rob Passage, Albion has been a tough nut to crack with his only other win vs Albion coming in his first season in 2003.  He actually has more wins over Calvin now than Albion.  In 16 meetings with the Britons, his teams are 2-14.

These games seem to waver between being knock down drag out fights to the bitter end, and complete dominating blow-outs.

Kzoo's biggest improvement in recent weeks seems to be on the offensive side of the ball.  I think I pointed out before league play began that I thought the league was full of mediocre defensive teams.  I don't think its much of a surprise that as soon as Kzoo hit the league their offensive performance seems to have improved over their non-conference performance.  I haven't looked into it, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out K's non-conference opponents were highly defensive oriented.

I've always viewed Kzoo as having teams with 2 or 3 good offensive players, surrounding by a lot of role players.  This Kzoo team doesn't seem much different.  Joe Prepolec and Ryan Clark are having very good seasons and provide a nice inside outside combination.  Eric Fishman has been the most frequent #3 scorer with Tyler Stewart following him.

Two games stick out when thinking of Kzoo this season, their win over Calvin obviously.  But also their win over Chicago, just a few days earlier Chicago had beaten Illinois Wesleyan.  Yet another set of scores that should have let us know Kzoo can play with anyone.


After Wednesday one of these two teams with be tied for first, with Hope still to come for each.  These next 3 games will show if Kzoo is a serious contender or not.

ALBION
@ OLIVET
HOPE

[WAlum]

Who is the Alma coach? Did they hire someone new or is this an interim guy until the season ends?

[Knight2Day]

I appreciate the fact that I'm getting run out of town for voicing my opinion. I have to say, the bothersome part to me isn't the fact that people don't like what I'm saying, not one bit. The part that bothers me is Calvin and Hope fans trying to act like they don't have the same "arrogant" thoughts about their respective programs. Really? I've seen more than my fair share of MIAA games at both institutions and have talked to more than my fair share of fans. I would venture that especially this season, quite a few of the fans for the respective teams have the same feelings that I do. They're thinking it, I'm just the one saying it.

And KS, you're probably one of the few posters on this board that I respect, don't worry, I don't think the world is ending, but I think you can understand my frustration.

[northb]

K2D--Don't worry so much.  You are certainly not being run out of town by one or two posters commenting about their OPINION about you and an entire college community.  And don't fret too much about the team.  I am only guessing from your profile, but I assume that you are a student.  As someone who has followed the team and the league a bit longer, what nearly always happens is that the ship rights itself, and (unless bested by Hope), finishes well.  As your own review notes, it is a pretty good bet that it will be either Calvin or Hope at the end of the season, and often enough we will get our share.  Now if that is cocky, I apologize, but it is still true.  I might eat my words this year, but I suggest fans of the other teams not put their table service away either.

[sac]

Who is the Alma coach? Did they hire someone new or is this an interim guy until the season ends?

Charlie Goffnet is the interim coach for this season.

http://www.alma.edu/athletics/mbb/Coach_Goffnett

[ziggy]

I appreciate the fact that I'm getting run out of town for voicing my opinion. I have to say, the bothersome part to me isn't the fact that people don't like what I'm saying, not one bit. The part that bothers me is Calvin and Hope fans trying to act like they don't have the same "arrogant" thoughts about their respective programs. Really? I've seen more than my fair share of MIAA games at both institutions and have talked to more than my fair share of fans. I would venture that especially this season, quite a few of the fans for the respective teams have the same feelings that I do. They're thinking it, I'm just the one saying it.

And KS, you're probably one of the few posters on this board that I respect, don't worry, I don't think the world is ending, but I think you can understand my frustration.

I wouldn't worry about it. You posted the list of league champions and there is no denying that his league is historically two-sided with Albion occasionally rising for honors.

On an individual game basis (like we saw last night), I respect a lot of teams in this league. On a league championship basis, there are only two teams I respect. Call it arrogance if you want but look over the list K2D posted and tell me where my thinking is wrong.

[KnightSlappy]

I appreciate the fact that I'm getting run out of town for voicing my opinion. I have to say, the bothersome part to me isn't the fact that people don't like what I'm saying, not one bit. The part that bothers me is Calvin and Hope fans trying to act like they don't have the same "arrogant" thoughts about their respective programs. Really? I've seen more than my fair share of MIAA games at both institutions and have talked to more than my fair share of fans. I would venture that especially this season, quite a few of the fans for the respective teams have the same feelings that I do. They're thinking it, I'm just the one saying it.

And KS, you're probably one of the few posters on this board that I respect, don't worry, I don't think the world is ending, but I think you can understand my frustration.

I wouldn't worry about it. You posted the list of league champions and there is no denying that his league is historically two-sided with Albion occasionally rising for honors.

On an individual game basis (like we saw last night), I respect a lot of teams in this league. On a league championship basis, there are only two teams I respect. Call it arrogance if you want but look over the list K2D posted and tell me where my thinking is wrong.

That's the other side to the "arrogance" coin. You want league wide respect? Go win a league title. Go grab a Pool C NCAA tournament bid. Only Albion has done that since I've been alive (they've done both).

The last time a non Hope/Calvin/Albion squad won even a share of a title, my parents weren't even in college yet.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Wow, Alma won a share of the title in 1978 - and your parents weren't yet in college?!  We may have to strip you of the moniker 'Dean of KnightSlappy U' on another board - I had no idea you were SUCH a youngun'!