MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[GoKnights68]

Seemed like he did this on a near game by game basis. He perfected the falling down "and-one" three point shot.

He often ended up in his teammates laps on the bench while nailing a trey.

I remember the 9 for 14 game against Kalamazoo his junior year like it was yesterday.  A lot of those 3s came in the second half with a hand in his face.  Unbelievable performance.  I always would have hated to be the opposing coach who always had to worry about not giving Draayer an inch to shoot otherwise he would burn you.   I don't see his 3 point record (all time and single season) being broken for a while.  He shattered the all time record in just 3 seasons as well.  Although Draayer was an overall great 3 point shooter, he definitely had the hot hand when he was on.

Anyways, just had to get in my two cents real quick, as those box scores brought back some great memories.

The poster before me said we should talk more about the Calvin vs Hope game coming up in less than 37 hours from now.  I tend to agree, although we did talk about it a few pages back on some of the key match-ups.  I personally wish there were posters from other MIAA schools in here right now besides Calvin or Hope.  There are a lot of good close games that are about to be played this Saturday other than Calvin/Hope.

I also think it is time for people to post their "fearless" prediction for Saturday!

[Dark Knight]

nd'!

We statisticians seek truth, but we also risk being killjoys.

Holy epistemological error, Mr. Y! If there's one thing statisticians don't seek, it's truth. They seek probabilities. There's a world of difference between those two things.

Mea culpa.  I'll support your first and third sentences, but take issue with the second and fourth.  We seek probabilities which will hopefully support (or shed light on) the truth.  (Or, for that matter, disconfirm 'the truth', otherwise derived.)

I'm afraid i's not a pick and choose proposition.

Au contraire.  (And, gimme a break, I'm running out of foreign phrases! )  You are apparently from the quantum mechanics wing of statistics!  I always taught my students to use statistics to seek truth, wherever it may lie.  And I believe there IS a truth to quantify.  Heck, I don't even accept Einstein - for everyday life, Newton is plenty good enough.

Statistics, by definition, can't seek truth.

Theodore Porter's The Rise of Statistical Thinking is an excellent historical examination of this problem. Aristotle is a first-rate philosophical examination. When you say "truth" here I suspect you're operating with a correspondence theory.

If statistics can't seek truth then neither can science. Perhaps the word you are looking for is certainty?

However, I wouldn't agree with you there either. By your apparent definition of truth, no one could know anything apart from self-evident facts and what can be proved from them. Sounds like Descartes to me.

Or maybe it's only Hope fans who don't know anything?  

[oldknight]

If statistics can't seek truth then neither can science. Perhaps the word you are looking for is certainty?

However, I wouldn't agree with you there either. By your apparent definition of truth, no one could know anything apart from self-evident facts and what can be proved from them. Sounds like Descartes to me.

Or Pontius Pilate. John 18:38. Quid est veritas?

[oldknight]

Nice piece on mlive about Tom and Carrie Snikkers and The Rivalry:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/01/brother_sister_play_leading_ro.html

[ziggy]

War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I remember our fearless then-freshman getting "hot" last year at a key point of the game in the Hope game at Van Noord.    3-4 from downtown in a 2:17 span.  Sometimes it's an unexpected hero. 

I think a key tonight for the Knights will be to try to get Krombeen in foul trouble again.  Some folks have commented here that Overway seems just as effective lately, but I have a lot of respect for Krombeen and his impact on the floor.

GOOD! 3 PTR by Bryan Powell                      09:45  58-57  H 1
ASSIST by John Mantel                           09:45
REBOUND (DEF) by Paul Campbell                  09:06              MISSED JUMPER by Nate Snuggerud
GOOD! 3 PTR by Bryan Powell                      08:58  61-57  H 4
BLOCK by John Mantel                            08:27              MISSED LAYUP by Nate Snuggerud
                                                08:27              REBOUND (OFF) by (TEAM)
                                                08:18              TURNOVR by Will Bowser
MISSED 3 PTR by Bryan Powell                     08:12              REBOUND (DEF) by Chris Nelis
REBOUND (DEF) by John Mantel                    08:03              MISSED 3 PTR by Andy Venema
GOOD! LAYUP by John Mantel [PNT]                07:53  63-57  H 6
ASSIST by Danny Rodts                           07:53
FOUL by John Mantel                             07:38  63-58  H 5  GOOD! FT SHOT by Peter Bunn
                                                07:38  63-59  H 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Peter Bunn
                                                07:38              SUB IN : Tom Snikkers
                                                07:38              SUB OUT: Matt Veltema
GOOD! 3 PTR by Bryan Powell                     07:28  66-59  H 7

[calvin_grad]

http://www.thepostgame.com/homepage/201101/big-coach-little-gym#

Story about a Div. III coach who passed away unexpectedly.  Team has won 9 games in a row since his tragic passing.

[almcguirejr]

http://www.thepostgame.com/homepage/201101/big-coach-little-gym#

Story about a Div. III coach who passed away unexpectedly.  Team has won 9 games in a row since his tragic passing.

Thanks for the link.

[HopeConvert]

No athletic events at Albion this weekend to due flu outbreak on the miaa site.

Those poor people on the MIAA site.

[HopeConvert]

nd'!

We statisticians seek truth, but we also risk being killjoys.

Holy epistemological error, Mr. Y! If there's one thing statisticians don't seek, it's truth. They seek probabilities. There's a world of difference between those two things.

Mea culpa.  I'll support your first and third sentences, but take issue with the second and fourth.  We seek probabilities which will hopefully support (or shed light on) the truth.  (Or, for that matter, disconfirm 'the truth', otherwise derived.)

I'm afraid i's not a pick and choose proposition.

Au contraire.  (And, gimme a break, I'm running out of foreign phrases! )  You are apparently from the quantum mechanics wing of statistics!  I always taught my students to use statistics to seek truth, wherever it may lie.  And I believe there IS a truth to quantify.  Heck, I don't even accept Einstein - for everyday life, Newton is plenty good enough.

Statistics, by definition, can't seek truth.

Theodore Porter's The Rise of Statistical Thinking is an excellent historical examination of this problem. Aristotle is a first-rate philosophical examination. When you say "truth" here I suspect you're operating with a correspondence theory.

If statistics can't seek truth then neither can science. Perhaps the word you are looking for is certainty?

However, I wouldn't agree with you there either. By your apparent definition of truth, no one could know anything apart from self-evident facts and what can be proved from them. Sounds like Descartes to me.

Or maybe it's only Hope fans who don't know anything?  

You'll notice I didn't offer one. I only offered the negative comment that it can't be derived methodically or inductively. That hardly makes me a Cartesian.

[ziggy]

No athletic events at Albion this weekend to due flu outbreak on the miaa site.

Those poor people on the MIAA site.

Next up on the Discovery Health Channel, "When Computer Viruses go Biological!"

[sac]

Albion has rescheduled their basketball games for Monday night 1-31.


The biggest beneficiary will be Adrian, who play Olivet at home Wed, and surely a very tired Albion team at home on Saturday.

Albion
1-31  OLIVET
2-2    @ Alma
2-5    @ Adrian

Olivet
1-31  @ Albion
2-2    @ Adrian
2-5    CALVIN

[hoopdreams]

Ziggy, you are quite correct in stating that anytime a player far exceeds his/her normal performance it is special.  "riding the hot-hand" or "being in the zone" is simply an expression used to convey one's excellence that night.  Before this board, in all of my years of playing, coaching and viewing thousands of games, I had never heard of a "hot-hand theory" people just enjoyed the moment. Last night was a small sample of what can happen when someone is playing at a high confidence level.  How many hundreds of interviews have we heard from hs to the NBA about players "feeling it"? Why not get in the zone every night?  You are also correct in stating that its not in a players control but it is why kids shoot thousands and thousands of shots on their own time, for games like this.  

Why does a kid like Powell, or Schuster, Bowser, or Tanis go 5-7 one game and 1-7 the next?  Because one game it "feels" good, and the other they're hoping and praying to hit the next one.  HC- you are correct, overall it was not a great shooting performance from behind the arc.  It was however a great scoring one, his strong finishes around the hoop were the most impressive in his 4 years.

I was not attempting to prove something or use Coach Passage's words as proof and I know I'll continue to be in the minority in this discussion.  I truly hope that an individual has an unbelievable shooting performance this weekend ( Not scoring, most anyone should be able to score a bunch shooting 25-30 times).  Please find that young man immediately after the game and ask him why that game was special.  Why did they shoot so well that game? I'll be curious to know their response.

Thank you for the debate, no winners or losers (except me)but why am I losing so much Karma?  To whom could I possibly have offended?

Keys to success:

1.  Don't allow team to shoot 40% or higher from arc
2.  Don't allow a rebounding differential of 5 or more, especially not 25
3.  Don't get outscored from FT line
4.  If you're really important to your teams success, don't get into foul trouble
4.  Your back court combo must outscore theirs

Love to hear what others believe the key(s) to tomorrow are.....

Anyone know who the officials are ? Kooiker?

[ziggy]

Love to hear what others believe the key(s) to tomorrow are.....

Anyone know who the officials are ? Kooiker?

Here are some of my keys based on the first meeting:

Things will go better than last time for Hope if:
- Krombeen stays out of foul trouble
- they make more three pointers than Calvin
- Calvin's rebounding advantage is seven or fewer
- their scoring runs do more than turn a double digit deficit into a two-point game (I'm not being as flippant about this as it may come across over the interwebs)

Things will go well for Calvin if:
- Bowser has exited the zone and the basket is no longer in the ocean (did anyone follow up that quote by asking what the hoop's location has to do with his ability to make a shot?)
- they can make it rain on them hopes from beyond the arc
- the Knights make more free throws than Hope attempts
- the number of assists exceeds the number of turnovers

[almcguirejr]

Nice piece on mlive about Tom and Carrie Snikkers and The Rivalry:

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/01/brother_sister_play_leading_ro.html

Does the comment to this article have any truth to it?