MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[almcguirejr]

Calvin's administration seems to value the "non basketball character building blah blah blah"  more than they do winning games

I would love to have both an undefeated record on the court and a coach/program that produced young men of high character.  And, I think it's definitely possible to achieve both, we've proved it right here at Calvin.  But, if I had to place priority on one or the other, I'd take character in a heartbeat.  Certainly wouldn't relegate it to "blah blah blah" status, especially if we truly want to live out the values of our alma mater.

And I definitely don't think anyone loses for the purpose of building character, or somehow thinks that losing is a noble pursuit.  That wouldn't be consistent with our values either.

Valuing winning over character leads to exactly the intended result.  See USC or any $EC school for exhibits in this.  A few championship rings maybe, but lose their selves in the process.  I appreciate KVS's success on the court (nat'l title, final four, multiple MIAA titles, etc) and I definitely appreciate his commitment to running a program with integrity and producing men of character, even if we have 10-loss seasons on occasion.

Why so defensive?  I said it all is my opinion.  If you differ fine with me.  Please don't give me the crap that valuing winning automaically leads to a USC situation.  There is a middle ground.  Winning and producing quality people are not mutually exclusive as you point out.  However, using producing "quality people" as a crutch to mask over accepting mediocrity is disingenuous (": lacking in candor; also : giving a false appearance of simple frankness : calculating") at best.

What is your expectation?

[realist]

Let's match the performance of the cross country program.  Quality people, and a nationally competitve program.  If cross country can do it, why can't other sports?  Listening to the runners I get the impression many of them come to Calvin because it is know as a quality/winning program.

[GoKnights68]

If there was a team that came into Saturday's game unprepared it certainly wasn't Calvin. Disappointment in the way the game ended is warranted but you can't try to make both points.

I understand your argument about this season as a whole but I also happen to believe that Calvin's 2005 Final Four run reflects back on coaching as well.

KVS's system works when it has the players that listen to KVS and believe in and do what he sets out for the team to do on the court.  The 2005 team fit that system perfect and played great defense.  You can say the same about the 2006 team. 

I still think there is questions about whether KVS can adjust to his players well enough, issues with substitutions, and playing the right players.

Look, it happens with any sport where a school or organization has a rival.  When you don't beat your rival, fans get angry.  It's the tough part of being a coach for a school or organization that has a rival.  Jon Cooper won a lot at tO$U, but he was canned for doing bad against his rival.  Lloyd Carr had won a NC and a fair share of conference titles, but then he started losing to tO$U and fans wanted a change (although the change obviously didn't work out with Rich Rod, but that's beside the point)

There are times where Calvin lost to Hope such as the 3 times in 2006 or the 3 times in 2008 where Hope was just the better team and deserved to beat Calvin, but one has to understand people's frustration when you blow such a big lead in such a big game.  I'm not saying Calvin is the better team this year, as that will be seen as the season goes on, but blowing a 18 point lead at home?

I think Calvin still has as good as shot as anyone at winning the MIAA tournament,  but clearly there are some leadership issues.

[HopeConvert]

Sac hit what I was getting at. With a 14-5 record and some quality D3 wins, I would have thought Hope would have gotten more than 2 votes. KS now has Hope as #1 in his regional rankings - ahead of Wooster. I had looked at that just before looking at the Top 25 and was struck by the disparity.

[ziggy]

Sac hit what I was getting at. With a 14-5 record and some quality D3 wins, I would have thought Hope would have gotten more than 2 votes. KS now has Hope as #1 in his regional rankings - ahead of Wooster. I had looked at that just before looking at the Top 25 and was struck by the disparity.

Just a point of clarification: his rankings are based on RPI calculation. The human has Wooster first: http://tomaroonandgold.blogspot.com/2011/02/predicting-first-round-of-gl-region.html

[Knightmare]

Let's match the performance of the cross country program.  Quality people, and a nationally competitve program.  If cross country can do it, why can't other sports?  Listening to the runners I get the impression many of them come to Calvin because it is know as a quality/winning program.

First off, I'd respond that comparing cross-country to being nationally competitive in basketball is comparing apples to oranges.  I don't think that cross-country has nearly the depth of competition that the sport of basketball has.  To expect a team to go to the final four every year or every other year is quite unrealistic.  I don't think that there are any programs that are doing that.  Michigan State in division 1 is the closest example and they are clearly having a down year.  Sports can  be very cyclical in nature, you've got to have the right combination of players come along at the right time to experience the level of success that you desire and that success does have a finite time period.  Look at the Florida Gators back-to-back national champions who have no fell on harder times.  In college athletics there is a quick turnover of student-athletes and that can result in the occasional down year or two.

Your level of expectation may not be entirely realistic, even the Calvin Men's cross country team that you speak of is on a 5 year national championship drought right now.  Should cross country coach Brian Diemer, a former Olympian, also be let go because of lack of a national championship over the last 5 years and counting?

[Dr. Truth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7xCOpZnpGg


after seeing rogers dunk against alma thought I would post this

[Civic Minded]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7xCOpZnpGg


after seeing rogers dunk against alma thought I would post this

Fun stuff -- thanks for sharing it!  And welcome to the board.  It's a bit crazy and sometimes annoying, but we're glad you're here!

[hoopdreams]

Just to clarify....GN68 sideline leadership or on-the-court leadership.

I agree, some pretty cool dunk clips.  However, I might suggest to the coaches at Trine that they stop focusing on so many high-fliers and pick up a couple leadfoots.  They seem to do OK in Holland at times   Stay warm everyone!!!!

[GoKnights68]

Just to clarify....GN68 sideline leadership or on-the-court leadership.

I agree, some pretty cool dunk clips.  However, I might suggest to the coaches at Trine that they stop focusing on so many high-fliers and pick up a couple leadfoots.  They seem to do OK in Holland at times  Stay warm everyone!!!!

Both.    I could go into more specifics but I am not one that likes to single out players out over things like this.


But I guess the "good news" is, at least Calvin will go into the MIAA tournament knowing they have to win it to get to the tournament.  Like I said, I still think Calvin has a decent shot at winning it.  It probably being at Hope doesn't really hurt considering Calvin has lost in the finals on their own court the past 2 seasons.

[knights2000]

Calvin's campus closed tomorrow for the first time since 1978.

[Civic Minded]

Calvin's campus closed tomorrow for the first time since 1978.

Just got word that Hope is closed tomorrow as well. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Calvin's campus closed tomorrow for the first time since 1978.

Just got word that Hope is closed tomorrow as well. 

WIMPS!!

Actually, just about everything in Washtenaw County is also closed (except, so far at least, the overly-macho U of Michigan).

[KnightSlappy]

Calvin's campus closed tomorrow for the first time since 1978.

I seem to remember campus being closed in 2005, January 22 to be exact, but that was a Saturday so it hardly counts the same.

It was supposed to be Calvin-Hope day.

[GoKnights68]

Calvin's campus closed tomorrow for the first time since 1978.

I seem to remember campus being closed in 2005, January 22 to be exact, but that was a Saturday so it hardly counts the same.

It was supposed to be Calvin-Hope day.

It was.  The game was made up that following Monday.  I remember the storm not being nearly as bad as this storm/blizzard, but I didn't blame them for post-poning the game with all the senior citizens that go to games and would have had to walk in the snow.

I think Calvin was also closed for night classes somewhere around 2007.  But tomorrow will be the first full day since '78 of course.