MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ScotsFan]

Another thought on the Witt/Wooster rivalry is that Witt has not been a member of the NCAC for a really long time.  They were in the OAC for a longer period of time than they have been in the NCAC.  The length of their rivalry does not compare to that of the Hope/Calvin rivalry.  When in the OAC the big rivalry used to be Ohio Northern/Witt!

Saturday's game between Wittenberg and Wooster was the 99th game in this rivalry dating back 99 years of which Witt now owns a slight 52-47 advantage overall in the rivalry.  What adds to the Witt/Woo rivalry is the fact that Wittenberg and Wooster are #1 and #2 in wins in ALL of college basketball.  Also, to add to the competitive nature of this rivalry is that over 40% of those 99 meetings between the 2 rivals have been decided by 4 points or less.  So, I'd say there is plenty of length to the Wooster/Wittenberg rivalry.  

Again, not trying to say it's the best rivalry.  I'm just trying to defend it from being slighted in any way.

[sac]

Van Andel Arena is 15 years old this year.


I'm probably one of the few people that can say they have seen both rivalries.  While I only had one chance at Woo/Witt vs about 50 or 60 Hope/Calvin games, I can say I think the intensity of the games is usually pretty similar.  Most of the time both games revolve around battling for 1st place in their respective leagues and that has a lot to do with it.

I don't know enough about Witt/Woo to know if it transcends other sports the way Hope/Calvin does, for example the soccer game this past fall at Hope which made a nice sized soccer stadium feel inadequate.   We'll never know but if a certain school ever manned up and introduced football I bet we could rival the crowds Wabash/DePauw pull in for their football game with ease.

From one impression, I think Witt/Woo is a little more of a hate/hate rivalry vs Hope/Calvin where I think there is a lot more mutual respect.  Witt/Woo don't have the same religious and cultural backdrop that Hope/Calvin have nor the proximity which plays such a big roll in how Hope/Calvin grads interact.  

If attendance is the biggest factor in deciding what constitutes a great rivalry then hands down Hope/Calvin wins (although the growing number of empty chairs in the Calvin sections confuses me lately).  The packed gyms of today are prettier and fancier but they are basically the same as the packed gyms of the 40's and 50's.



If there is one thing I've learned from following d3hoops.com is that there are a lot of really good rivalries at this level.

[oldknight]

First of all, who are these friends you speak of on the NCAC board that think the Witt/Woo rivalry is as good or better than Calvin/Hope?  I haven't seen anyone suggest the Witt/Woo rivalry is better than the Hope/Calvin rivalry.  I have seen it argued that the Witt/Woo rivalry is second behind Hope/Calvin (as the results of the poll taken on the front page also suggested), but I don't recall anyone claiming it's the best.   

See my cut and paste (below) from post done by pennstghs at page 743 of the NCAC board. I don't follow your board that closely so maybe he's no friend.



Re: MBB: North Coast Athletic Conference
« Reply #11134 on: February 12, 2011, 09:40:08 pm »   
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great overall hustle by Witt and here's to another great addition to the Wittenberg/Wooster chapter, the best rivalry in D3 Hoops.

[Pat Coleman]

My one Hope-Calvin game and my one Wittenberg-Wooster game each had some extra buildup, so I'm not sure I can fairly compare them either. Hope-Calvin was the last regular-season meeting in the Holland Civic Center and Wittenberg-Wooster was also a No. 1 vs. No. 2 matchup.

[KnightSlappy]

My one Hope-Calvin game and my one Wittenberg-Wooster game each had some extra buildup, so I'm not sure I can fairly compare them either. Hope-Calvin was the last regular-season meeting in the Holland Civic Center and Wittenberg-Wooster was also a No. 1 vs. No. 2 matchup.

Count the basket, but then we've got a charge.

Still scratching my head.

[ziggy]

My one Hope-Calvin game and my one Wittenberg-Wooster game each had some extra buildup, so I'm not sure I can fairly compare them either. Hope-Calvin was the last regular-season meeting in the Holland Civic Center and Wittenberg-Wooster was also a No. 1 vs. No. 2 matchup.

Count the basket, but then we've got a charge.

Still scratching my head.

                                                            05:10  62-60  H 2  GOOD! DUNK by Josh Meckes [PNT]
GOOD! FT SHOT by Andy Phillips                  05:10  63-60  H 3  FOUL by Josh Meckes
GOOD! FT SHOT by Andy Phillips                  05:10  64-60  H 4

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Don't forget that not only are the Hope-Calvin games sell-outs, there are also watch parties all over the world (mostly in the US) that draw over 3000 people, as well as it being broadcast on local TV for years, and on satelite for the last few.

KS & ziggy - it was the last rivalry game in the CC, you didn't think you guys were going to win it, did you?

[ziggy]

KS & ziggy - it was the last rivalry game in the CC, you didn't think you guys were going to win it, did you?

I blame it on officiating and player positioning as a direct result of the non-regulation size court.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

KS & ziggy - it was the last rivalry game in the CC, you didn't think you guys were going to win it, did you?

I blame it on officiating and player positioning as a direct result of the non-regulation size court.

A smaller wouldn't a smaller court mean the official would be in better position?

[ziggy]

KS & ziggy - it was the last rivalry game in the CC, you didn't think you guys were going to win it, did you?

I blame it on officiating and player positioning as a direct result of the non-regulation size court.

A smaller wouldn't a smaller court mean the official would be in better position?

The smaller court means the players are packed in closer than normal. The blame to the officiating is separate from the size of the court.

I'll leave the discussion there since I would rather not have to get my shovel out to dig up that horse.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

KS & ziggy - it was the last rivalry game in the CC, you didn't think you guys were going to win it, did you?

I blame it on officiating and player positioning as a direct result of the non-regulation size court.

A smaller wouldn't a smaller court mean the official would be in better position?

The smaller court means the players are packed in closer than normal. The blame to the officiating is separate from the size of the court.

I'll leave the discussion there since I would rather not have to get my shovel out to dig up that horse.

It has been a while since that game was played, but I was able to dig this up:

[sac]

Don't forget that not only are the Hope-Calvin games sell-outs, there are also watch parties all over the world (mostly in the US) that draw over 3000 people, as well as it being broadcast on local TV for years, and on satelite for the last few.

This is also a key aspect that gets overlooked, I'm pretty sure no one else does this.

[Pat Coleman]

Don't forget that not only are the Hope-Calvin games sell-outs, there are also watch parties all over the world (mostly in the US) that draw over 3000 people, as well as it being broadcast on local TV for years, and on satelite for the last few.

This is also a key aspect that gets overlooked, I'm pretty sure no one else does this.

Agreed, not that I'm aware of, not in basketball. There are Monon Bell watch parties, but I am not aware of any other regular-season watch party setup for any other Division III game.

[Knightmare]

Don't forget that not only are the Hope-Calvin games sell-outs, there are also watch parties all over the world (mostly in the US) that draw over 3000 people, as well as it being broadcast on local TV for years, and on satelite for the last few.

This is also a key aspect that gets overlooked, I'm pretty sure no one else does this.

Agreed, not that I'm aware of, not in basketball. There are Monon Bell watch parties, but I am not aware of any other regular-season watch party setup for any other Division III game.

That's in addition to the game now available nationally to anyone with DirecTV on the World Harvest Network.  I know for the last 3-5 years I've watched the game from the comfort of my own family room in Northern Michigan with satellite TV.  Usually one of the only games I get to see anymore because of geography.  The watch parties don't even take into account other folks and alumni like myself who watch from home.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

More youtube sillyness:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nHDUdf3-0&feature=player_embedded#at=32

For whatever reason this starts at 32 seconds... rewind for the initial shots

Here it is starting from the beginning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nHDUdf3-0