MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Civic Minded]

Anders -- you are exactly right, especially your last sentence.  Hope had the opportunites and didn't capitalize.  I apologize if it seems I  was just griping about officiating.  While responding to other posters comments, I left out the most important part -- we could have, and we didn't.  Sigh.

[sac]

It still kind of amazes me that despite Albion playing this way for......forever, people still get upset when they see it.


You miss 3 FT's out of 4 in the final 30 seconds, and then give up two layups in 10 seconds you deserve to lose no matter what style the other team plays.  or rather  

........to go along with shooting an enormous (exageration) number of 3's when you have the lead late in a game and OT vs a team that can't stop fouling.  Holy cats, get to the bucket and draw the foul.



On the other hand, this was a dogfight game for Albion, they were playing for their lives as far as seeding goes and despite a million fouls and trailing in both regulation and OT they found a way to win.

That's a kind of competitive spirit that college athletics is about, I think you have to admire what Albion pulled off tonight.

[AndersDY]

Unreal finish in Holland you probably had to see to believe.

Albion 78 Hope 76 OT

final pending I guess

Now final,  75% FT shooting team goes 2-6 in the final 30 seconds and loses the game.

Free throw woes aside, the play-by-play makes it look like this game should have gone to a second OT at a minimum. With the game tied, why is Krombeen shooting with enough time for Kazen to fastbreak the other way for the winner?

I don't think the time stamp is always accurate on the livestats. 

I don't know what the time stamp showed, but Hope had the ball in a tie game with about 13 seconds left. David went right up court, must have thought he saw an opening and drove straight down the lane where he missed. By the time Albion secured the rebound, there were still 7 seconds remaining. And given how quickly he had brought it up, no one was prepared to chase Kazen back the other way so he had a clean path. It was certainly a risky choice where holding for 1 shot seems to be the proper play.

[AndersDY]

I've seen Albion playing their tough hard-nosed defense before, but this did not seem to be on the same level. This seemed to go beyond agressiveness to them deciding to fly around pushing and hacking, willing to commit as many fouls as might get called to disrupt Hope. There were several wild loose ball or offensive fouls peppered in so it wasn't just that they were playing in your face defense. Everything looked high risk from them tonight. They forced several turnovers, but were willing to risk a foul at almost any time in the process. It struck me that they were aiming for the tough physical play we expect from Albion, but went waaay overboard.

CM - I didn't assume you had nothing to say other than that we wanted more whistles. It's hard to focus your reaction after a game like this when you're frustrated by officiating, but equally frustrated in your own team's self destruction which they caused all by themselves.

[sac]

"Jody's statement to me was 'Your kids were flat out tougher than us,'" Hope coach Matt Neil said.

This was after the first Hope/Albion game, I'm certain the Albion kids got a good tongue lashing from May after that night, which was followed 4 days later by getting whipped at Calvin.

I'm sure Albion's players had something to prove tonight and were willing to do anything to do it.

[wiz]

Calvin-Albion on Saturday. Winner gets Trine.

Not the kind of pressure wanted going into this game.  But will make for one heck of a crowd at historic Kresge gymnasium.  Flash back to 2004-2005 season....

I doubt you'll get more than 500,  Albion's highest attendance this year was 680 vs Hope. 

502. Zig and I are going.

Even though Albion provides a video feed and doesn't worry about attendance figures, I'll make it 503.  Always more fun in person.

Sac, last time I was at a game in Albion was back in 2008.  You sat in front of me as Albion won at the buzzer.   What a finish!  I'm sure KVS will remind the team of that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qcbm2rYMXc

[Happy Calvin Guy]

In my opinion Albion plays a farce of the game of basketball.  They bully their way and dare the refs to call a foul every 10 seconds.  What's more, last night's victory will somehow justify this approach in their mind.  Hey, we came out to play like thugs, and we beat Hope on their floor, this works!  I didn't see the Albion-Hope game last night, but I've seen enough Albion basketball and I put credibility in the comments I see here from respected Hope posters.  Is there any doubt the Brits will come to play the same way on Saturday when the Knights visit (historic!) Kresge?  KVS better get the boys ready for a dogfight and mentally girded to not get dragged into the chippiness that Albion tries to incite.  As for the MIAA officials, they need to take a stand and call Albion's bluff.  Go ahead and foul out their whole team in the first half, sacrifice one game and make a joke out of it, but send a message once and for all that thuggery is not a strategy that will fly in the MIAA.  

[ziggy]

In my opinion Albion plays a farce of the game of basketball.  They bully their way and dare the refs to call a foul every 10 seconds.  What's more, last night's victory will somehow justify this approach in their mind.  Hey, we came out to play like thugs, and we beat Hope on their floor, this works!  I didn't see the Albion-Hope game last night, but I've seen enough Albion basketball and I put credibility in the comments I see here from respected Hope posters.  Is there any doubt the Brits will come to play the same way on Saturday when the Knights visit (historic!) Kresge?  KVS better get the boys ready for a dogfight and mentally girded to not get dragged into the chippiness that Albion tries to incite.  As for the MIAA officials, they need to take a stand and call Albion's bluff.  Go ahead and foul out their whole team in the first half, sacrifice one game and make a joke out of it, but send a message once and for all that thuggery is not a strategy that will fly in the MIAA.  

Well timed, HCG. I was about to throw out a question for discussion: Is Albion dirty?
I'll put you down for a "yes".

I have a hard time singling out Albion as dirty or bullies considering the foul counts were high on both sides last night. I would never label Hope a dirty team, perhaps someone that was there can give there thoughts as to whether Hope was roped into that style of play or if the refs were just keeping it as even as they could. That being said, I would lean a little towards the thug/dirty side for the Brits.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

In my opinion Albion plays a farce of the game of basketball.  They bully their way and dare the refs to call a foul every 10 seconds.  What's more, last night's victory will somehow justify this approach in their mind.  Hey, we came out to play like thugs, and we beat Hope on their floor, this works!  I didn't see the Albion-Hope game last night, but I've seen enough Albion basketball and I put credibility in the comments I see here from respected Hope posters.  Is there any doubt the Brits will come to play the same way on Saturday when the Knights visit (historic!) Kresge?  KVS better get the boys ready for a dogfight and mentally girded to not get dragged into the chippiness that Albion tries to incite.  As for the MIAA officials, they need to take a stand and call Albion's bluff.  Go ahead and foul out their whole team in the first half, sacrifice one game and make a joke out of it, but send a message once and for all that thuggery is not a strategy that will fly in the MIAA.  

Well timed, HCG. I was about to throw out a question for discussion: Is Albion dirty?
I'll put you down for a "yes".

I have a hard time singling out Albion as dirty or bullies considering the foul counts were high on both sides last night. I would never label Hope a dirty team, perhaps someone that was there can give there thoughts as to whether Hope was roped into that style of play or if the refs were just keeping it as even as they could. That being said, I would lean a little towards the thug/dirty side for the Brits.

IMHO - the officials were trying to keep it as even as they could.  For example, in the 1st half, Albion had 7 fouls to Hope's 1 (or something close to that) when the following occured:

12:21   Hopem   FOUL by Nate Snuggerud
12:08   Hopem   FOUL by Ty Tanis
11:57   Hopem   FOUL by Logan Neil
11:55   Hopem   FOUL by Chris Ray

1 of those was maybe a legit foul, the rest were ticky-tack fouls called in a all-out brawl. 

[ziggy]

In other news, Miguel Cabrera is apparently back on the sauce and resisting arrest.
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2011/feb/17/baseball-star-miguel-cabrera-arrested-dui-st-lucie/

Great, go Tigers.

[oldknight]

Rest assured I will be cheering for Calvin, and anyone else who has to play Albion, for a very very long time.

Yikes. Can the Second Coming be far behind?

On Jim Schipper:  I've never had a comfortable feeling with him officiating a game in which I have a rooting interest--and that includes several high school games I have seen him do. Technically, he's a sound official, and obviously he has a lot of respect since he now does Big Ten games, but too often I have seen him make (or not make) doubtful calls at very inopportune times in big games. I'd rather see Dave Joppie any day. He's sort of like a comfortable old shoe--not flashy but he get's the job done without making you upset.

[Knightmare]

After reading the previous 5+ pages to get caught up, it is more evident than ever that a move to just 4 teams in the MIAA tourney is a TERRIBLE idea.  If that were to happen this year who wants to be the person that tells the remaining teams that they are done and don't even have a chance.  This decision is robbing a lot of kids at least the chance to do something memorable in future MIAA tourneys.  This year there are certainly more than 4 deserving teams that should at least get a shot at it.

On another note congrats Oldknight on post 1,300 directly before my post.  When you double up and get to post 2,600 are you going to rename to "Olderknight" 

[Happy Calvin Guy]

IMHO - the officials were trying to keep it as even as they could.  1 of those was maybe a legit foul, the rest were ticky-tack fouls called in a all-out brawl. 

Don't get me started on the belief that officials should keep fouls even.  Basketball teams don't do everything else equally (make shots, get rebounds, turn the ball over, commit travelling violations, etc etc), so why should we assume that they foul equally?  Yet there is this underlying assumption that it is the referee's job to keep team fouls somewhat even.  You hear this illogical argument from every angry crowd at basketball games.  For example, that lady from Adrian who let her daughter run onto the court during last Wednesday's game at Van Noord frequently articulated this very point.   

If indeed the officials in last night's Hope-Albion game called this series of fouls on the Dutchmen to "keep it as even as they could" they are overreaching their responsibilities as officials.  I would prefer they call it as accurately as they could, and if one team chooses to violate the rules more often, so be it.

[ziggy]

After reading the previous 5+ pages to get caught up, it is more evident than ever that a move to just 4 teams in the MIAA tourney is a TERRIBLE idea.  If that were to happen this year who wants to be the person that tells the remaining teams that they are done and don't even have a chance.  This decision is robbing a lot of kids at least the chance to do something memorable in future MIAA tourneys.  This year there are certainly more than 4 deserving teams that should at least get a shot at it.

I'm still on the fence about this from a competitive standpoint. Look at the current standings, there are four teams above .500 in league play and four teams below .500 in league play.

Yes, Adrian and Kzoo are certainly capable of pulling off an upset but I have a hard time arguing that a sub-.500 team is getting the shaft. If the can win, then they should do it more often and make it a non-issue.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

After reading the previous 5+ pages to get caught up, it is more evident than ever that a move to just 4 teams in the MIAA tourney is a TERRIBLE idea.  If that were to happen this year who wants to be the person that tells the remaining teams that they are done and don't even have a chance.  This decision is robbing a lot of kids at least the chance to do something memorable in future MIAA tourneys.  This year there are certainly more than 4 deserving teams that should at least get a shot at it.

I'm still on the fence about this from a competitive standpoint. Look at the current standings, there are four teams above .500 in league play and four teams below .500 in league play.

Yes, Adrian and Kzoo are certainly capable of pulling off an upset but I have a hard time arguing that a sub-.500 team is getting the shaft. If the can win, then they should do it more often and make it a non-issue.

I agree - you have 14 opportunities to win a game in the league, so win enough to be in the top 4.