MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

What upset me was a gentlemen in the Albion visitor section wearing a JCSizzle jacket (JC Cruse's dad?) turning around after Kazen made the basket with 2 secons left and trash talking the grey hairs in Section 2. I guess he was caught up in the moment but still totally classless.

DeVos hasn't seen an act like that since Derek Van Solkema graduated!

[sac]

When was the last time the MIAA Champion lost two home games?

[ziggy]

When was the last time the MIAA Champion lost two home games?

Perhaps 1999 when Hope and Calvin tied at 10-4. I don't have the archives to verify but this seems to be the most likely. Calvin was 9-3 in 2002 but lost one at home and two on the road.

[gobrits]

From RuleBritannia:
Fouls on Albion in 2011: 477
Fouls on Albion's opponents: 499

Excellent point, Rule. A breath of fresh air this morning. It's also true that Albion's games against Hope and Calvin are more physical – on both sides – than others.

An observation on last night's final play in overtime: Overway pushed off his defender to create space before he was "flattened," as some posters have described it. The view was unobstructed from where I sat. There was space between the two bodies, bridged only by the Hope player's extended arm. If there was a foul on the play, it was there.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

From RuleBritannia:
Fouls on Albion in 2011: 477
Fouls on Albion's opponents: 499

Excellent point, Rule. A breath of fresh air this morning. It's also true that Albion's games against Hope and Calvin are more physical – on both sides – than others.

An observation on last night's final play in overtime: Overway pushed off his defender to create space before he was "flattened," as some posters have described it. The view was unobstructed from where I sat. There was space between the two bodies, bridged only by the Hope player's extended arm. If there was a foul on the play, it was there.

I too had an unobstructed view of that play, and let's just say - we will have to agree to disagree.  If that play takes place at any other moment in the game, Colton is at the free throw line.

No matter, that play is not what cost Hope the game.

[hoopdreams]

basic rule of thumb on this play in question cannot be found word for word in a rule book.  A player is generally allowed to use his own body to create space, as long as he/she does not lower his shoulder or extend his forearm to create that space.  A defender is generally allowed to make contact defending the ball, as long as he does not "steer" or impede on the offensive players chosen direction to the hoop.

Every player should be taught to create their own space by initiating the contact and creating separation. And every great player knows how to do it well. There's a Newton law in there or something

This allows for a lot of contact, lots of subjective calls, and lots of confusion as to what is being called and allowed.  If its consistent, everyone can/should adapt to that style. Otherwise your team gives up 100 points or they all foul out.  If the officials are inconsistent......

Colton does a great job of creating separation and the reason he never gets called for an offensive foul on it is because he always retreats a step or two following, and doesn't immediately try to blast past them. Innocent contact in an officials eyes.  I'm guessing with the play in question, without the ball in his hands- incidental contact was the decision but after 61 fouls, it needed to be made.

FWIW- spend a few minutes next game watching off the ball activities, and there are probably 3-5 fouls not called on each possession of the game, especially on a screen sequence.  It's laughable and the one's who aren't crafty, are the one's always in foul trouble. 

DVS in the house last night and I guarantee he would have gotten at least 1 tech, if not tossed last night.  Someone on the floor needed to show Albion that their actions would not be tolerated.

[BogeyMan]

I find it real difficult to listen to loyal fans from a losing team complain about how the opponents played after losing a game.  Does sore losers and sour grapes come into play here?  Hope posters have gone as far as calling the Albion players thugs.  All Albion did last night was play a lot harder and with a lot more heart than Hope did and now the Hope fans are unwilling to accept this loss.  Better look in the mirror.

Several posters were also talking about the officials.  I don't pay attention to the names of the officials but the black official last night is probably the best official in the MIAA.  Many times officials are intimidated by the surrounding and give in the home crowd.  He was fair and kept his composure and did not favor either team.  The older gentleman with the biggest belly of the three was possibly the worst I have seen in the MIAA this year.  He felt the pressure and overcompensated  by becoming a negative influence in the game by calling way too many unnecessary fouls.  He was thrown out of the league once because the coaches felt he was not good enough only to come back when a new assigner took over.  I can now see why the coaches wanted him out.

As far as the last play of the game goes.  It was not a perfect pass!  It was short and the offensive player trying to catch the intiated the contact by trying to go through the defender.  Any and all contact on that player was because of pass being thrown short.

I would think that Hope fans could respect the fact the rest of the league does not have the talent Hope does and when an opponent comes into their gym they know the only way they can possibly beat Hope is by playing harder and being mentally tougher.  That is what happened last night!  Get over it and accept the fact Albion did what they had to do to win.  Please respect that.

I also thought there were two very important decisions made last night that affected the outcome of the game.  One by Krombben to drive to the hole with his left hande moving left and and shooting the ball with his right hand without squaring up to the basket.  I am not saying you don't take the opening if it's there.  I am saying the shot you take needs to be on balance and square to the basket.  The second decision was by May.  With 35 seconds on the clock and down three points, he decided to make the game a several possession game instead of setting up a play for a three.  A missed three would of ended the game.  Trading two for one or in one situation two for zero was the right call by May.  

Sportsmanship is showing respect to your opponents when you win and LOSE.  I know it is tough when you lose but that's why the call it sportsmanship.  Or maybe sportsmanship isn't important to Hope fans!

I am sure my k will go down because I see things differently than the Hope posters.  There is one rule on this board when it comes to k.  Never disagree with a Hope or Calvin poster!

[HopeConvert]

I was sitting courtside closer to Hope's second-half offensive end. A few observations about disputed play:

• At the time, I didn't think Overwey was "flattened." He did get undercut, but I'm not convinced he was actually in position to make the shot anyway. I thought he was too close to the baseline. It seemed to me in real time to be one of those you could have called or not called, but probably shouldn't expect to be called at that point of the game.
• The call made against Mike Smith where he fouled out is one of the worst calls I have ever seen. I was looking right at it, and he barely touched the Hope player.

I'm really not sure what to say about the way Albion played, nor am I sure what to say about the officiating. It was, let's be honest, a really difficult game to officiate because it was so physical and so fast. They could have called something on every possession, and I think they realized about 5 minutes in that things were starting to get out of hand.

For as long as I've watched Hope basketball, they almost always set up their halfcourt offense the same way: point guard runs down, they snap the ball around the perimeter. Utterly predictable. Well, Albion was prepared for that and played tight on the outside and got their hands in the passing lanes. This led to a lot of steals with easy layups going the other way. Frankly, I kind of admired Albion for this, because I've always wondered why more teams don't do that because they know it's coming.

I just can't get upset at Albion or the officials over this one. Hope knew what they were in for, and they made or didn't make some of the adjustments they should have. None of that matters to me, because on numerous occasions Hope had the game in the bag and gave it away. I'm much more disappointed in that than I am in anything the Brits or the officials did. I will grant that Albion should have had more fouls called on them than Hope did, but in this instance it just doesn't matter much.

So I'll still be rooting for Albion on Saturday. It would take more than that to get me to wear a Calvin sweatshirt.

[GoKnights68]

 There is one rule on this board when it comes to k.  Never disagree with a Hope or Calvin poster!

Yeah, but as it has been said before, this board has been made up of mainly Calvin and Hope fans for years, so it may especially seem that way.  Not really our fault that more non Calvin and Hope posters don't post here.

Whenever a poster registers and joins this board from another MIAA school besides Hope or Calvin, they usually get about 3-4 posts from board regs here welcoming them to the board and encouraging them to keep posting because we desire to hear more opinions from other schools.


Anyways, thanks for your analysis of the game.  It is good to hear from both sides.

[HopeConvert]

FYI: I wrote my post before I read bogeyman's, for which I have given him +k. Actually, I give Albion partial credit. I think Hope just flat blew it.

[GoKnights68]

So if Calvin beats Albion and Olivet beats Alma this Saturday, does Albion fall to the 4th seed meaning they could get another possible re-match against Hope next week Friday in Holland?  Am I right or wrong?

EDIT:  I am wrong.

[oldknight]

Rest assured I will be cheering for Calvin, and anyone else who has to play Albion, for a very very long time.

Yikes. Can the Second Coming be far behind?

Must be close.     If I could be in two places at once, I'd be at Kzoo for the Hope game, and sitting next to you, wearing maroon, at Albion.       (Honestly, I would!)

As it turns out, you can sit with me Saturday because Kalamazoo is where I will be that afternoon. However, you'll have to wear brown and gold, or black and brown, or whatever colors WMU goes with these days because I will be at University Arena watching Juwan Howard, Jr, and the rest of the Broncos take on Illinois State. With a 2 pm start I might even be able to slip over to the Roller Dome to watch the finish of the Hope/Kalamazoo game.

[ziggy]

So if Calvin beats Albion and Olivet beats Alma this Saturday, does Albion fall to the 4th seed meaning they could get another possible re-match against Hope next week Friday in Holland?  Am I right or wrong?

I don't think so, Albion and Olivet split their two matchups but Albion's win over Hope should be what breaks the tie in their favor. It would be 1. Hope, 2. Calvin, 3. Albion, 4. Olivet

[GoKnights68]

So if Calvin beats Albion and Olivet beats Alma this Saturday, does Albion fall to the 4th seed meaning they could get another possible re-match against Hope next week Friday in Holland?  Am I right or wrong?

I don't think so, Albion and Olivet split their two matchups but Albion's win over Hope should be what breaks the tie in their favor. It would be 1. Hope, 2. Calvin, 3. Albion, 4. Olivet

Ahhh you're right, I forgot the next tie-breaker is how they did against the conference top ranked team (Hope in this case).   I guess we could still see a re-match in the finals, but I hope not! 

[oldknight]

So I'll still be rooting for Albion on Saturday. It would take more than that to get me to wear a Calvin sweatshirt.

So if Calvin plays Albion in the conference semifinal at DeVos, will you still be rooting for Albion?