MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Adrian Hoops Fan]

Adrian had maybe 15 people who made the trip, all of them probably relatives.  No students from Adrian that I could see.   It was a very disappointing turnout for the Bulldogs.

Olivet had what at this point I'll call their standard home crowd, the bleachers looked as full as they usually have minus the empty visitor section.  And no band for some reason.

Adrian doesn't have the greatest following for hoops especially on the road, but Adrian and the surrounding area was hammered with ice on Sunday night with over half of the county out of power and down trees and power lines all over the place, and to make matters worse, we got 4 inches of snow on top of that on Monday.  The great news for us now is that after midnight we are supposed to get 4-8 inches of snow with sleet mixed in.  So for this time only, I will give the students a pass on their lack of support.  Best of luck to the remaining 4.  

I personally as wishing for Adrian to win the tournament not only because that is my school, but so that the presidents of the schools may rethink their new  craptastic plan for a conference tournament.

[northb]

Adrian had maybe 15 people who made the trip, all of them probably relatives.  No students from Adrian that I could see.   It was a very disappointing turnout for the Bulldogs.

Olivet had what at this point I'll call their standard home crowd, the bleachers looked as full as they usually have minus the empty visitor section.  And no band for some reason.

Adrian doesn't have the greatest following for hoops especially on the road, but Adrian and the surrounding area was hammered with ice on Sunday night with over half of the county out of power and down trees and power lines all over the place, and to make matters worse, we got 4 inches of snow on top of that on Monday.  The great news for us now is that after midnight we are supposed to get 4-8 inches of snow with sleet mixed in.  So for this time only, I will give the students a pass on their lack of support.  Best of luck to the remaining 4.  

I personally as wishing for Adrian to win the tournament not only because that is my school, but so that the presidents of the schools may rethink their new  craptastic plan for a conference tournament.

It is not about if the lower seed can win the tourney.  If the history of this league shows anything, it is that dropping the 5-8 seeds is a pretty safe bet.  It is about making it financially viable.  Go out and get all your friends, classmates or alumni to get up and go to the games, and then they can rethink it.  Fans had the chance to do so last night and the numbers just weren't there.  If the fans don't care enough, why should the institution?

[sac]

It is not about if the lower seed can win the tourney.  If the history of this league shows anything, it is that dropping the 5-8 seeds is a pretty safe bet.  It is about making it financially viable.  Go out and get all your friends, classmates or alumni to get up and go to the games, and then they can rethink it.  Fans had the chance to do so last night and the numbers just weren't there.  If the fans don't care enough, why should the institution?

I'm really not sure the change to 4 teams is about financial viability, my understanding is that its about making all MIAA sports' tournaments equal across the board.

Why?  You'll have to ask the President's and AD's.  The answer floating around most seems to be cutting down on missed class time, but that doesn't really wash with me, perhaps I have it wrong.

This seems much more about just making things equal just so they can say they are equal.

[sac]

From the MIAA site, sometime recently


MIAA Announces New Competitive Format To Take Effect in 2011-12 Season
The Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association will begin a new competitive format for its regular season and tournament competition that will go into effect with the 2011-12 season, Commissioner David Neilson announced today.

The MIAA will institute home-and-home round-robin formats for regular season competition in team sports, with the exception of football and softball, which will remain with single round-robin schedules. In sports where a postseason tournament is used to determine the automatic qualifier (AQ) for NCAA Division III championship competition, all tournaments will adopt a four-team format, Neilson said.

"The Presidents' Council of the MIAA has reaffirmed the principle that MIAA conference competition and championships are the primary objective of in-season play (MIAA Mission Point #7 in MIAA Mission Statement)."

"They also strongly endorse and support NCAA postseason play, and the aspirations of our student-athletes, coaches and institutions to compete at the highest level and on the national stage (MIAA Mission Point #8)."

The four-team postseason tournaments will be used in the following AQ sports: volleyball, men's soccer, women's soccer, men's golf, women's golf, men's basketball, women's basketball, baseball, softball, men's tennis and women's tennis. Currently, tournament formats vary from four-team, six-team and eight-team tournaments in various sports.

"To further increase the significance of MIAA regular-season play, all AQ tournaments will include only the top four teams based upon final regular season standings," Commissioner Neilson said. "The Presidents' Council believes this reinforces the concept of earning a playoff position through success in the regular season."

Founded in 1888, the MIAA is the nation's oldest collegiate athletic conference. Member institutions are Adrian College, Albion College, Alma College, Calvin College, Hope College, Kalamazoo College, Olivet College, Saint Mary's College and Trine University.




.......so done deal.

[realist]

Thanks for posting the MIAA release.  I don't have a problem with what they are saying.   However, I  remember the reason we were given for going with a bball tournament in the early 90's was it's being a method to raise money to cover MIAA conference operating expenses.

If they really wanted to "further increase  the significance of MIAA regular season play......."  why didn't they just eliminate the tournaments completely?

[KnightSlappy]

If they really wanted to "further increase  the significance of MIAA regular season play......."  why didn't they just eliminate the tornaments completely?

Because allowing for a tournament to decide the AQ increase your chances for multiple NCAA bids.

If Hope doesn't win this year, the MIAA should get two teams in.

[realist]

95, 05, 06, and 07 are the only years with more than one MIAA team going to the NCAA since the MIAA started tournaments. 

Perhaps this is a way for the presidents to nudge several of the AD's and coaches to be a wee bit more aggressive about scheduling "in region" games.  That is another key to getting pool C.

If you are going to play the game, play for the AQ, and not coming in the backdoor on a pool C selection.  

[ChicagoHopeNut]

I know this isn't the "right" board for this complaint but feel free to call me a traditionalist but a 4 team tournament for soccer is asinine.  Hate it far more than I do changing basketball from 8 teams to 4 teams.  (I know women's soccer already had a tournament, it was stupid then too).

[alexj35]

I just witnessed THE most poorly affiliated game in the history of the MIAA. Truly an embarrassing display in the Adrian/Olivet game. Someone deserves to lose their job. Olivet overcame soooo many obstacles tonight just to have lithe win ripped away from them. Y'all can call me bitter if you want but if you were here to witness it, I guarantee you would agree with me. One man in particular didn't even hide the fact that he was anti-Olivet... Disgusting...

The two technical fouls on Eric Mack were just awful, his first he was actually in or on his way to the huddle during a timeout, I didn't have a good view of it but I presume he was just trying to pump his guys up.  So I don't know exactly what happened, the T was a surprise to just about everyone there.  I did hear the official say quite clearly, unsportsmanlike conduct.

There were some other procedural things I need to look in a rule book for (it was that interesting).........

The first technical foul on Eric Mack was actually deserved.  It was right during Olivet's great run in the second half to pull the Comets back into the game and tie things up.  Adrian called a timeout and the place erupted.  In the midst of the mayhem, Mack got carried away and clapped right in the face of an Adrian player (Mosley, I believe) as he was going to the huddle.  Olivet's assistant coach grabbed him to pull him away, but the damage was done.  The ref saw the action and immediately T'd him up.  Coach Gifford was extremely disappointed by that.  But I felt it was used as a positive to motivate the Olivet players as they went from 4 down to 6 up.  Adrian had 6 team fouls with 10:35 to play and somehow managed to go into overtime with 8... and double overtime with 9...  And trust me, there's no way in hell.

The circus that you're referring to was unreal.  I've NEVER seen a team be able to get more warm-up time just because they spent an extra couple minutes in the locker room.  It's as if the ref was accusing Olivet of some shenanigans with the clock.  Or maybe it's as simple as having a power trip and wanting to show the home fans that HE is the one in charge and things will be done HIS way.  And yeah, to toss them the game ball to shoot around with and ignore all the arguments from the Olivet coaching staff was absolutely ridiculous.

As far as wanting to check in on other procedural things, I think I know what you're referring to.  Eric Mack was called for his 5th foul and then got T'd up (which was DEFINITELY a bunch of bull).  So Adrian was allowed to sub in Wesley Reed to shoot the technical free throws and then tried getting away with subbing him back out for the player that was on the floor initially.  Gifford had to point that out amidst his pleas that it was illegal for Adrian to sub in a player to shoot the techs.... I'm not POSITIVE that this procedure is illegal, but I'm pretty sure...

                                                            00:51              SUB IN : Dennis Mason
                                                            00:51              SUB OUT: Wesley Reed
MISSED LAYUP by Jaren Edsall                    00:34              REBOUND (DEF) by Sean Gallant
SUB IN : Cameron Duncan                          00:32
SUB OUT: Eric Mack                                  00:32
FOUL by Eric Mack                                    00:31
FOUL by Eric Mack                                    00:31
FOUL TECHNCL by Eric Mack                       00:31              MISSED FT SHOT by Wesley Reed
                                                             00:31              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                             00:31  59-63  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Wesley Reed


Incredibly heartbreaking for the seniors to play their last game and have it wind up like that.  I want to give a shout out to Joe Post whose buzzer beater at the end of overtime was probably the greatest play I've ever seen.  He snatched the airball with less than 3 seconds remaining, raced to the corner, got his feet behind the line, turned, and fired over an Adrian defender while falling away.  The buzzer sounded and the the shot was nothing but the bottom.  So sweet...  It's a shame that ridiculous foul trouble prevented Olivet from having its best interior defenders on the floor down the stretch and that that shot wound up going unrewarded.

Anyway, kudos to the Comets.  They were a thrill to watch all year.

[Erm Schmigget]

95, 05, 06, and 07 are the only years with more than one MIAA team going to the NCAA since the MIAA started tournaments. 

Perhaps this is a way for the presidents to nudge several of the AD's and coaches to be a wee bit more aggressive about scheduling "in region" games.  That is another key to getting pool C.

If you are going to play the game, play for the AQ, and not coming in the backdoor on a pool C selection.  

Re: the presidents nudging...
I like this if it's true.  Somehow the MIAA teams have to let the WHAC worry about the WHAC and start playing more DIII games before the conference season starts.  If this is effective, we may be grateful for it.

Re: coming in the back door with a pool C selection...
Not sure what you're getting at here.  This is how the brackets get filled.  Every conference has the chance to get a second, or maybe even 3rd, team in the NCAA tourney.  I'm sure the hearts and minds of every team are focused on playing for the AQ and not coming in the back door.  But the reality is, sometimes the "best" team after the conference round robin doesn't get the AQ.  In 95, 05, 06, and 07, somebody was happy that door was even available.  Heck, in 09 and 10, if somebody had played more (in-region) DII games, maybe they would have had a chance to add to that list of years of Pool C appearances.  

[Gregory Sager]

I'll be rooting for the lower seeds tonight, not because it might prove an advantage for my school this weekend, but because maybe some people who make big decisions might see the light and decide a four team tournament is not the best idea for these student athletes.

I have no idea how far along this process really is, from what I hear its far enough, but maybe there's a glimmer of hope that the Presidents and AD's can compromise and give the MIAA a 6 team tournament.  Seeing the lower seeds win tonight might just provide enough evidence that leaving the 5-8 seeds out of this is not such a good idea.

You're rooting for Alma? I think this is a sign of the apocalypse.

First it's CM rooting for Calvin and now it's sac openly rooting against Hope. What next? Half the Michigan legislature fleeing Lansing for Columbus? 

They could form an interesting gathering in Rockford IL.

"Rockford IL" and "interesting" do not belong in the same sentence under any circumstances.

[sac]

                                                            00:51              SUB IN : Dennis Mason
                                                            00:51              SUB OUT: Wesley Reed
MISSED LAYUP by Jaren Edsall                    00:34              REBOUND (DEF) by Sean Gallant
SUB IN : Cameron Duncan                          00:32
SUB OUT: Eric Mack                                  00:32
FOUL by Eric Mack                                    00:31
FOUL by Eric Mack                                    00:31
FOUL TECHNCL by Eric Mack                       00:31              MISSED FT SHOT by Wesley Reed
                                                             00:31              REBOUND (OFF) by (DEADBALL)
                                                             00:31  59-63  V 4  GOOD! FT SHOT by Wesley Reed

It was pointed out to me that the boxscore's substitution's is probably incorrect for that period of the game, because of 'confusion' on the refs part.    And, yes it was the subbing at this point that I think was incorrect and its something I do want to look up.


Thanks for clearing up Mack's first T, I couldn't see it, it makes sense now.

Also was Edsall's 3 really an airball?......if so I really may need better glasses.

[Gregory Sager]

If they really wanted to "further increase  the significance of MIAA regular season play......."  why didn't they just eliminate the tornaments completely?

Because allowing for a tournament to decide the AQ increase your chances for multiple NCAA bids.

Not always. It could also penalize a Pool C bubble team by forcing an extra 0-1 or 1-1 onto its regular-season record. Yeah, sometimes it works in favor of multiple NCAA berths (e.g., your example of Hope in the MIAA this season), but sometimes it's counterproductive.

[alexj35]

It was pointed out to me that the boxscore's substitution's is probably incorrect for that period of the game, because of 'confusion' on the refs part.    And, yes it was the subbing at this point that I think was incorrect and its something I do want to look up.


Thanks for clearing up Mack's first T, I couldn't see it, it makes sense now.

Also was Edsall's 3 really an airball?......if so I really may need better glasses.

Ha, yeah. It was short by nearly a foot. That's what allowed Post the time to snatch it and race to the corner.  And yeah, I understand that livestats are often inaccurate. It was just a visual. Reed WAS on the bench when Mack got the T though. He was part of an offense/defense sub rotation. That's why #33 was going to the line initially to shoot the FTs but got sent back when Reed was able to come in and shoot

[KnightSlappy]

If they really wanted to "further increase  the significance of MIAA regular season play......."  why didn't they just eliminate the tornaments completely?

Because allowing for a tournament to decide the AQ increase your chances for multiple NCAA bids.

Not always. It could also penalize a Pool C bubble team by forcing an extra 0-1 or 1-1 onto its regular-season record. Yeah, sometimes it works in favor of multiple NCAA berths (e.g., your example of Hope in the MIAA this season), but sometimes it's counterproductive.

Ziggy and I estimated 14 conferences would earn multiple bids through last weekend.

We'll see how many of those 14 lose a bid due to a loss in their tourney vs. how many gain an extra bid via an upset.