MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[HopeConvert]

The Hope/Hanover game will be at 5PM CST. As I said, it's exactly 300 miles from Hope's campus, but who knows what traffic will be like around Chicago. At least you don't have to go through the city.

FWIW....  the article on the Augustana site regarding the tourney indicates a 5:30 CST start....

"Hope and Hanover will play the first game Friday, March 4 at 5:30 p.m. with Augustana and Webster to follow at 7:30 p.m. The winners of those games will meet Saturday, March 5 at 7:00 for the right to advance to the Sweet 16."

Unfortunately, Webster has had very small crowds this season.... if they sell 100 tickets I'll be surprised.....

I got my information from Augustana's website:

http://www.augustana.edu/x33359.xml

[wiz]

How is it even conceivable for Will Bowser to not be the MVP of this league? Everyone knows that the best player on the best team is the MVP, its like an unwritten rule!

The MVP is for the league, not just the winning team.  Will Bowser is an excellent player and a huge contributor to Hope's success.  He's had a great career and it isn't over yet.  McClary, however, has been the odds on favorite all year as evidenced by the games we've seen him play, the player of the week designations, the postings on this site and, more importantly, the well-informed voters' insights.  Just like the women's side, Carissa Verkaik is clearly the league MVP again.  Last year she played for only the second place team and this year a first place team.  But, with her performances, she would have won even if Calvin came in third or fourth.  It is simply the most valuable player in the league.

I think the MVP selections and the 1st and 2nd place teams were right on for both the men and the women.  I also liked the defensive player of the year distinction on the women's side.  Wish they would have done that on the men's side as well.

[ziggy]

Do people really equate most valuable player with best player?

[hopefan]

The Hope/Hanover game will be at 5PM CST. As I said, it's exactly 300 miles from Hope's campus, but who knows what traffic will be like around Chicago. At least you don't have to go through the city.

FWIW....  the article on the Augustana site regarding the tourney indicates a 5:30 CST start....

"Hope and Hanover will play the first game Friday, March 4 at 5:30 p.m. with Augustana and Webster to follow at 7:30 p.m. The winners of those games will meet Saturday, March 5 at 7:00 for the right to advance to the Sweet 16."

Unfortunately, Webster has had very small crowds this season.... if they sell 100 tickets I'll be surprised.....

I got my information from Augustana's website:

http://www.augustana.edu/x33359.xml

Hope convert... thanks...well there are two articles on augie pages and two different times... I tried to call, but no one is home yet... for those of us fighting a tight clock, that half hour one way or another is critical.....

[BogeyMan]

Do people really equate most valuable player with best player?

I'm with you ziggy.  I don't get it.  I know I am going to repeat myself but McClary was the best player in the league but the most valuable has to be Bowser.  Bowser led his team to the regular season championship and a NCAA birth.  What more can you ask of a MVP?

[HopeConvert]

Do people really equate most valuable player with best player?

I'm with you ziggy.  I don't get it.  I know I am going to repeat myself but McClary was the best player in the league but the most valuable has to be Bowser.  Bowser led his team to the regular season championship and a NCAA birth.  What more can you ask of a MVP?

A perennial debate, one with no apparent conclusion.

In my judgment, there were only four players in the league who were clear first-teamers, and I would count Krombeen as one of them. Which means that three of the players named are iffy, I think, but I'm not sure who'd I put ahead of them.

[ziggy]

Do people really equate most valuable player with best player?

I'm with you ziggy.  I don't get it.  I know I am going to repeat myself but McClary was the best player in the league but the most valuable has to be Bowser.  Bowser led his team to the regular season championship and a NCAA birth.  What more can you ask of a MVP?

I have an easier time accepting the value part in regards to McClary in light of their 6-2 finish to the MIAA regular season. Before that you would have had a hard time convincing me. MM did some serious work this season and finishing in a third place tie with Albion is a nice achievement for him and his team.

I don't mean to argue against McClary, rather the perception that MVP=MOP. I also will never argue that the best player from the best team should be an MVP shoe-in but I see Will Bowser as the key player in Hope's success; that is valuable.

[almcguirejr]

Do people really equate most valuable player with best player?

Bowser led his team to the regular season championship and a NCAA birth.  What more can you ask of a MVP?

Will he be one and done?

[hoopdreams]

Personally, I'd rather play one game with the opportunity to win or lose, as opposed to sitting home wondering why my team can't win the big one.

There have been co-mvp's in the past and although I don't have the previous winners stats in front of me, this year seems like a perfect opportunity to have co-winners.  Because there is no specific criteria for winning the award, the opportunity for debate will always be there. There were supposedly some rather heated discussions at the meeting yesterday in regards to this MVP race.  OC-SID, can you confirm this without letting the cat out of the bag?

I attempted to bring up the debate of an all-defensive team for the Men's a couple pages back.  Who wants to take a stab?

I chuckled about the hint of an attendance war yesterday.  May I be the first to acknowledge that Calvin has 2 National Championship banners hanging.  This will certainly arise as soon as Hope gets knocked out, if they don't win it all

[ziggy]

Personally, I'd rather play one game with the opportunity to win or lose, as opposed to sitting home wondering why my team can't win the big one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this statement was in response to Al Jr's "will he be one and done?"

I don't mean to put words in Al Jr.'s keyboard but that was in response to BogeyMan's assertion that Will Bowser couldn't have done any more to deserve MVP honors. While an NCAA win would not factor into the official decision, it would speak to the quality of his candidacy if Hope was able to pull out at least one tournament victory. I never read that as a slight against Hope's tournament prospects.

Let's not lower ourselves into the "We're in, you're out", "yeah, but you'll lose anyway" banter.

[HopeConvert]

Personally, I'd rather play one game with the opportunity to win or lose, as opposed to sitting home wondering why my team can't win the big one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this statement was in response to Al Jr's "will he be one and done?"

I don't mean to put words in Al Jr.'s keyboard but that was in response to BogeyMan's assertion that Will Bowser couldn't have done any more to deserve MVP honors. While an NCAA win would not factor into the official decision, it would speak to the quality of his candidacy if Hope was able to pull out at least one tournament victory. I never read that as a slight against Hope's tournament prospects.

Let's not lower ourselves into the "We're in, you're out", "yeah, but you'll lose anyway" banter.

Actually, I think he was responding to using "birth" rather than "berth."

[ziggy]

Interesting tidbit to consider from the Pool C board:

TEAM A: 0.684 WP, 0.543 SOS, 1-2 vRRO
TEAM B: 0.692 WP, 0.543 SOS, 2-2 vRRO

TEAM B is the obvious choice between these two teams, and there are other criteria to discuss, but the similarity is surprising to me.

TEAM B was a Pool C selection, but TEAM A never had a prayer.

Calvin and IWU.

[ziggy]

Personally, I'd rather play one game with the opportunity to win or lose, as opposed to sitting home wondering why my team can't win the big one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this statement was in response to Al Jr's "will he be one and done?"

I don't mean to put words in Al Jr.'s keyboard but that was in response to BogeyMan's assertion that Will Bowser couldn't have done any more to deserve MVP honors. While an NCAA win would not factor into the official decision, it would speak to the quality of his candidacy if Hope was able to pull out at least one tournament victory. I never read that as a slight against Hope's tournament prospects.

Let's not lower ourselves into the "We're in, you're out", "yeah, but you'll lose anyway" banter.

Actually, I think he was responding to using "birth" rather than "berth."

Is Will Bowser having twins?

[almcguirejr]

Personally, I'd rather play one game with the opportunity to win or lose, as opposed to sitting home wondering why my team can't win the big one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this statement was in response to Al Jr's "will he be one and done?"

I don't mean to put words in Al Jr.'s keyboard but that was in response to BogeyMan's assertion that Will Bowser couldn't have done any more to deserve MVP honors. While an NCAA win would not factor into the official decision, it would speak to the quality of his candidacy if Hope was able to pull out at least one tournament victory. I never read that as a slight against Hope's tournament prospects.

Let's not lower ourselves into the "We're in, you're out", "yeah, but you'll lose anyway" banter.

Actually, I think he was responding to using "birth" rather than "berth."

You are correct, Sir.

[DewCrewVett]

Well let me start by saying that Michael McClary is a tremendous player and clearly one of, if not the best, in the MIAA.

But, Ziggy, you make it sound like there is a world of difference in the conference stats, perceptions, and accolades of McClary and Bowser. When that is all not the case. (Since work is so slow, I thought I might do some quick research)

For example McClary averaged a superior 26.3 ppg, but it took him 20 shots per game to do it. And McClary's team also finished 8-6 and 13-13 overall, with no wins over the league champion, and losses to the 6th and 7th ranked teams. And they were upset in the first round of the MIAA tournament. To me an MVP has to accomplish something with his team to really be considered "valuable". And no offense to Olivet, but it was definitely an "under-achieving" season compared to what some people were expecting from the league outset.

Bowser on the other hand averaged 21.5 ppg in legaue play, that is the most points a Hope player has averaged in league play since Don Shinabarger in the 1972 season. And he was able to do this in 15 shots per game, about 5 less then McClary was averaging. And based on the talk of this board and the season outlook after Hope lost the whole kitchen in terms of personnel, Bowser literally put the team on his back and carried Hope to an extremely convincing conference championship and conference tournament championship, his fourth in a row! How many hope players can say they led their team to four straight AQ's?

It just seems from my admittedly bias Hope-end of things that Bowser got snubbed. The two players are clearly comparable in terms of stats, they both won player of the week 5 times, and one player is still practicing and preparing for a game, while the other never even got a taste of the NCAA tournament, let alone the conference championship. To me, there is really no comparison.

On a side note, through all my meaningless research in the last hour I discovered that with one game to go:

Bowser has accumulated 1,191 points, good for top 20 all time.
His 513 points this season so far is good for the 9th best scoring season of any Hope player ever.
He is 11 boards away from from 500, and the top 10 list in that category.
His 60 3P FG made is good for 7th all-time for one season
And of course the 46 points, which I am sure was discussed at some point on this board, doesn't need to be re-hashed.

In the end to me, it just seems like the choice was obvious.

Even though he didn't get the MIAA MVP, I can only hope that he is being considered for national awards.

And if you would like a point of reference, when I was watching college basketball on TV this past weekend, they were discussing possible Big East player of the year candidates, the clear statistical favorite is Marshon Brooks from Providence who scored 52 points in one game and is averaging 26.8 per contest. When the panel went around the table asking if he deserved the award, not a single one said he did, the difference was that his team just didn't win enough games. Now I know D1 and D3 are not comparable, but can you really reward the MVP to a 8-6, 13-13, and first conference tournament exit player? (Keep in mind my first statement please)