MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

I just saw this, sorry if it seems out of place but 3 cheers to Lawrence High School and Hope College for agreeing to move and host their district game with Fennville to DeVos Fieldhouse Monday night.


http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x868522079/Fennville-thanks-Lawrence-for-its-willingness-to-move-site-of-basketball-game

[scottiedawg]

Well then, even though HC more than adequately summed up my thoughts, and in a manner more literarily pleasing) here are a few of mine.

05-06: We lost to Wittenberg because our seniors disappeared (including 0 Reb from Voisin) and Wittenberg had two Sr forwards who were trees.

06-07: We lost to WashU because we shot 2-73 from 3 point land. And still only barely lost.

07-08: We lost to WashU because Troy Ruths was almost unguardable and the player who had stopped every team's best scorer, Ryan Klein, picked up his 3rd foul too early in the 2nd half.

08-09: We lost to UW Platteville because they had a 7ft Sr and we did not have the talent to compete.

09-10: We lost to St. Norbert because pretty much up and down the team, we played poorly. That's really the only NCAA loss I can point to where we were the better team.

10-11: We lost to Augustana because.....well......ummmm.  Can't think of a reason.

The type of adversity Hope teams face usually come against Calvin and are of this form: Draayer, Veldhouse, Veltema, and Schuster hit 3's in four consecutive possessions.

The adversity against Augustana was this kind: getting no open looks because you're giving up 3-5 inches at every position, giving up easy buckets not because you missed an assignment or the offensive player made a particularly good move but because you were 3 inches shorter and had 3 fouls. getting beat up physically because you were the smaller team, being completely gassed because we really only had five players that had any business talent wise being on the floor and Augustana had at least 8.

And yet Bowser would get punished going for a defensive rebound, run down the floor and run off about 5 screens at maximum effort in an attempt to get open, receive a pass, fight through multiple defenders on his way to the paint, and make a shot, every time getting sent to the floor.  And then run back down the floor and do it again. And again.

And yet Colton would outwork multiple taller players for a rebound, handle the ball for the majority of the possession, and when the shot clock got under 10 create and score or dish--and fight through a tender knee late in the game.

And yet Ty, who was not tall enough or quick enough to hang with Augustana, worked and worked every possession, drained a huge 3 during our run, and simply never took the hint that a 6-7 defender who was quicker should render him useless.

I could go on and on. Hope took body shots all night long and kept coming back for more. It's special and extremely rare when you see a team perform at the apex of their ability. I haven't ever seen that kind of effort from a MIAA team.

[rvande4]

I was listening on the radio and it sounded like Hope was playing their heart out.
I'd like input on why when you are ahead by 3 with 14 seconds you don't foul the ball handler when he crosses center court and only allow him to make two and have to foul you on the in bounds play?

[oldknight]

I just saw this, sorry if it seems out of place but 3 cheers to Lawrence High School and Hope College for agreeing to move and host their district game with Fennville to DeVos Fieldhouse Monday night.

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/newsnow/x868522079/Fennville-thanks-Lawrence-for-its-willingness-to-move-site-of-basketball-game

+k to Lawrence HS for giving up home court advantage in the district opener. I imagine the move to Hope's campus was facilitated by the fact that Fennville's coach is Ryan Klingler--and possibly by his former coach. As events would have it, fomer Hope coach Glenn Van Wieren was at the fateful game Thursday night seated just a few feet behind the Fennville bench. He was interviewed on WOOD TV:

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/ottawa_county/Van-Wieren-victory-then-tragedy?ref=scroller&categoryId=10004&status=true

Like everyone else, he struggled to put into words what he witnessed and had no answers.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I was listening on the radio and it sounded like Hope was playing their heart out.
I'd like input on why when you are ahead by 3 with 14 seconds you don't foul the ball handler when he crosses center court and only allow him to make two and have to foul you on the in bounds play?

rvande4 - I heard recently on ESPN that a statistical study showed that whether you foul in that situation or play tough D, the outcome is relatively the same.  In other words, the team that is behind wins at the same percentage either way, so no real advantage one way or another.

+k to everyone of you who have posted about the Hope team and the game last night.  I simply don't have any better words than all of you have shared.  You captured the experience perfectly.

[pointlem]

I was listening on the radio and it sounded like Hope was playing their heart out.
I'd like input on why when you are ahead by 3 with 14 seconds you don't foul the ball handler when he crosses center court and only allow him to make two and have to foul you on the in bounds play?

rvande4 - I heard recently on ESPN that a statistical study showed that whether you foul in that situation or play tough D, the outcome is relatively the same.  In other words, the team that is behind wins at the same percentage either way, so no real advantage one way or another.

+k to everyone of you who have posted about the Hope team and the game last night.  I simply don't have any better words than all of you have shared.  You captured the experience perfectly.

It's a good question and I've heard others also argue for fouling in that situation, though I rarely see it done.  Perhaps when your team has 6' 5" post players and the other team has 6' 9" post players that would be a good time not to invite a missed 2nd free throw and offensive rebound or tip in?

[Pat Coleman]

Here's a story about fouling 'up three under seven' -- leading by three points with seven seconds left. DePauw coach Bill Fenlon is a big devotee.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/09/30/upthree.underseven/index.html?eref=d3hoops

[Knight2Day]

Finally, a word about Hope's coaches. As Will and Ty and Adam left the floor Coach Neil broke into tears. From my vantage point, he was not crying because they lost the game, nor because he couldn't pad his resume, nor because he was disappointed in his team. He simply empathized very profoundly with his players, and he was hurting for them and not because of them. I think he has shown this year that he is (another cliché) a real "player's coach," and that he demanded and received their very best, and they love him for it. And he them. It was touching watching him with his players after the game. Furthermore, I am consistently impressed by the comments I hear him make. He praises his players publicly and doesn't tear them down. In today's Sentinel article, when noting the foul disparity, he doesn't blame the refs, but simply notes it as a result of Augie's offensive aggressiveness and Hope's defensive aggressiveness; under those circumstances, the smaller team is likely to get whistled against more. Neil didn't even offer it as a possible explanation, but as a causal one. That shows some character, I think. I'll just say that he won me over this year, and I feel good about the future of the program with Neil in charge.

As a die hard Calvin fan, Coach Neil did a superb job this season, I would like to have seen what Calvin could have done this year with a coach as devoted to his players as Coach Neil. Congrats to Hope on a fine season. Even rivals can recognize a job well done.

[rvande4]

Here's a story about fouling 'up three under seven' -- leading by three points with seven seconds left. DePauw coach Bill Fenlon is a big devotee.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/09/30/upthree.underseven/index.html?eref=d3hoops

Great article Pat.  Thanks for passing that on.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Here's a story about fouling 'up three under seven' -- leading by three points with seven seconds left. DePauw coach Bill Fenlon is a big devotee.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/09/30/upthree.underseven/index.html?eref=d3hoops

Great article Pat.  Thanks for passing that on.

I remember that article, but had forgotten that Fenlon's first two 'lessons' were against IWU or I might have brought it up myself!

My most vivid memory of 'foul the blankety-blank!' was when the Pistons led the Lakers by 3 with seconds to go in a playoff game and Kobe hit a 3 (the Lakers won in overtime, and won the series).

I've heard of the research that FDF mentioned, but I can't help but think: "foul the SOB!"

[GoKnights68]

I just had SportsCenter on in the background and they were doing a segment on what happened with the Lawrence basketball team and on a friend of Wes Leonard, and it ended with Scott Van Pelt saying someone (I forgot his name) was going to Hope College in the fall.

Again, I was halfway paying attention, but that is cool to hear Hope College being said on national tv on sportscenter. 

[Happy Calvin Guy]

As a die hard Calvin fan, Coach Neil did a superb job this season, I would like to have seen what Calvin could have done this year with a coach as devoted to his players as Coach Neil. Congrats to Hope on a fine season. Even rivals can recognize a job well done.

I agree 100% on Coach Neil.  He has won me over.  He seems to be positive, motivating, and sportsmanlike and the results speak for themselves.  Well done this year, Coach Neil and Dutchmen, and the whole MIAA is proud of how you represented us in the NCAA's.

I don't think the swipe at  KVS is called for though.  It's fine to debate and disagree with his in-game strategy, personnel rotation, etc, but I don't think it's a good practice to try to look inside of him and question his devotion to his players.

[KnightSlappy]

Is it November yet?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Is it November yet?

You must have patience, grasshopper...

[HopeConvert]

As to whether Hope should have fouled (although NOW of course I wish they had): keep in mind there were 14 seconds left in the game when Will was at the line. So let's say Hope fouls when there's 7 seconds left (just before DeSimone launches his 3). Augie makes both free throws, and you now have a one point game. They foul Hope immediately, with at least 5 seconds left. Hope now has to make both free throws or they have a real problem on their hand. If they don't, they are now susceptible to losing on a 3, or being tied with a layup (remember Albion?). I suppose Hope could foul again, assuming they make both free throws, but that's hard to talk yourself into doing. Under 7 is one thing, I guess, but with 14 seconds left I think you have to play that straight up. If they make a shot - well, that happens.