MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Knight2Day]

Jordan Brink spotted with a sling on his right arm.  Anyone with knowledge of this injury?  Obviously a key piece of the Knights' 2011-12 plans, hope he's ok and ready to go when practice starts.

He hurt his shoulder in a pickup game on campus the first week of school. It's a torn labrum (the tissue that helps stabilize the joint), has had surgery, and is on the shelf for the year. A huge loss for the Knights.

Thanks for the info oldknight.  Terrible news for Brink and the Knights.  The backcourt battle with Hope could get ugly this year.  Powell/Rietema + first year players vs Krombeen/Overway/Bunn/Neil.  Holy crap.

Perhaps we go big and move Snikkers to the 2.  Don't really like Powell being the primary ballhandler and playmaker but it might put more talent, size, and experience on the floor. 

Best wishes to Jordan for a speedy and full recovery!

If they move Tommy to the 2 who do they play at the 3? Havs? And if that happens, I would push Powell to the bench as Rietema is bigger and more talented as a PG on both ends of the floor than Powell. With Brink out this year it's going to be a very long year for the Knights who could get pushed to 3rd or 4th realistically in the conference and don't have a shot at beating the Dutch this year.

[Knight2Day]

Jordan Brink spotted with a sling on his right arm.  Anyone with knowledge of this injury?  Obviously a key piece of the Knights' 2011-12 plans, hope he's ok and ready to go when practice starts.

He hurt his shoulder in a pickup game on campus the first week of school. It's a torn labrum (the tissue that helps stabilize the joint), has had surgery, and is on the shelf for the year. A huge loss for the Knights.

Thanks for the info oldknight.  Terrible news for Brink and the Knights.  The backcourt battle with Hope could get ugly this year.  Powell/Rietema + first year players vs Krombeen/Overway/Bunn/Neil.  Holy crap.

Perhaps we go big and move Snikkers to the 2.  Don't really like Powell being the primary ballhandler and playmaker but it might put more talent, size, and experience on the floor. 

Best wishes to Jordan for a speedy and full recovery!

If they move Tommy to the 2 who do they play at the 3? Havs? And if that happens, I would push Powell to the bench as Rietema is bigger and more talented as a PG on both ends of the floor than Powell. With Brink out this year it's going to be a very long year for the Knights who could get pushed to 3rd or 4th realistically in the conference and don't have a shot at beating the Dutch this year.

Another big factor is going to be the lack of depth for the Knights (especially in the backcourt) with a coach that likes to go 9 deep on a regular basis.

[KnightSlappy]

As I see it, the starting lineup stands to be Kruis, DeBoer, Snikkers, Haverdink, Powell.

Don't really like Powell being the primary ballhandler and playmaker but it might put more talent, size, and experience on the floor.

Why so down on Powell as a ball handler?

'10-11 Assist to turnover ratio:
Brink: .91
Powell: 1.59 (#7 in the MIAA, second on the team to Salo)

[Happy Calvin Guy]

As I see it, the starting lineup stands to be Kruis, DeBoer, Snikkers, Haverdink, Powell.

Don't really like Powell being the primary ballhandler and playmaker but it might put more talent, size, and experience on the floor.

Why so down on Powell as a ball handler?

'10-11 Assist to turnover ratio:
Brink: .91
Powell: 1.59 (#7 in the MIAA, second on the team to Salo)

There are a lot of reasons why a turnover can occur.  Put another way, not all turnovers are created equal.  Guys who can take it to the hole and score a lot (Snikkers, Brink) by nature generate a few turnovers, but in exchange for a lot of good outcomes (layups).  I've never viewed Powell as a strong finisher in traffic, so you don't get this upside with him.  His turnovers tend to be of the dribbling-into-a-double-team-18 feet from the basket variety, or the elevate-and-decide-in-the-air variety.  I believe that his court sense and decision making are not as developed as I'd like to see from a point guard.   

If you look at points/turnover ratio, Brink was at 4.36 and Powell 4.59.  Similar, right?  Until you look at the number of shots it took to achieve that.  Brink put up 0.22 shots/minute, Powell 0.36.  That's 64% more shots taken per minute just to get the same result.  Why does this happen?  Powell spends more of his opportunities bombing low percentage 3 pointers, while Brink intelligently takes opportunities to get to the rim for higher percentage shots/free throws, which "justifies" some turnovers in traffic.  To put this in terms that I'm sure realist would agree with, look at Haverdink.  Very low turnover #'s, but he rarely "makes things happen", hence low output.  I don't know anyone that would endorse Haverdink to be our starting point guard just because his low turnover stats are awesome. 

So, I'm not "down on Powell" as a whole, there is definitely a role for him in the rotation, I just wish we had a better option for our starting 1 guard.  I hope he can prove me wrong.  I will say he probably has the best singing voice on the court at any given time......

[KnightSlappy]

There are a lot of reasons why a turnover can occur.  Put another way, not all turnovers are created equal.  Guys who can take it to the hole and score a lot (Snikkers, Brink) by nature generate a few turnovers, but in exchange for a lot of good outcomes (layups).  I've never viewed Powell as a strong finisher in traffic, so you don't get this upside with him.  His turnovers tend to be of the dribbling-into-a-double-team-18 feet from the basket variety, or the elevate-and-decide-in-the-air variety.  I believe that his court sense and decision making are not as developed as I'd like to see from a point guard.   

If you look at points/turnover ratio, Brink was at 4.36 and Powell 4.59.  Similar, right?  Until you look at the number of shots it took to achieve that.  Brink put up 0.22 shots/minute, Powell 0.36.  That's 64% more shots taken per minute just to get the same result.  Why does this happen?  Powell spends more of his opportunities bombing low percentage 3 pointers, while Brink intelligently takes opportunities to get to the rim for higher percentage shots/free throws, which "justifies" some turnovers in traffic.  To put this in terms that I'm sure realist would agree with, look at Haverdink.  Very low turnover #'s, but he rarely "makes things happen", hence low output.  I don't know anyone that would endorse Haverdink to be our starting point guard just because his low turnover stats are awesome. 

I definitely agree that Powell shoots the ball too much (actually, not that he shoots too much, just that he makes too few  ), but I think that’s a different issue than turnovers necessarily. I think with Bryan, we’re allowing our frustration affect the whole picture of him as a player. I think his passing ability is a bit underrated.

Here’s the top single-season assist rates of Calvin players since 2002 (as far as the complete online data goes) for players playing in at least 25% of the available minutes (roughly 10 min per team game):
SR -- Ricky Shilts -- 2005 -- .236
JR – Jeremy Veenstra -- 2002 -- .223
SO -- Bryan Powell -- 2011 -- .223
SR -- Jeremy Veenstra -- 2003 -- .220
SR -- Josh Berghuis -- 2005 -- .220

Calvin career assist rates (same caveats):
Ricky Shilts -- .225
Jeremy Veenstra -- .222 (this only includes his JR and SR years)
Josh Vriesman -- .214
Bryan Powell -- .211

Assist rate is (an approximation of) the percentage of team’s field goals a player assists on while on the floor.

Again, I agree that Powell need to attempt far fewer shots (or find a three point stroke), but I think he can be a very nice PG in this league. Perhaps Rietema can be that guy too, his number were good in the 16 minutes he played last year, but the jury is still way out on him.

[realist]

Jordan Brink spotted with a sling on his right arm.  Anyone with knowledge of this injury?  Obviously a key piece of the Knights' 2011-12 plans, hope he's ok and ready to go when practice starts.

He hurt his shoulder in a pickup game on campus the first week of school. It's a torn labrum (the tissue that helps stabilize the joint), has had surgery, and is on the shelf for the year. A huge loss for the Knights.

That's a shame, and a big blow for the Knights (IMHO).  I was extremely impressed with Jordan's play last year.  Hopefully he has a full recovery and will be back playing for the 2012-2013 season.

Yes indeed a very big blow.  Brink's injury IMO is really going to restrict the number of options KVS has when it comes to possible rotations.  Sadly most of the possible combinations result in having a one dimensional team on the floor a great percentage of the time.  One can expect that Snikkers will probably try to step it up some, but one guy leading the charge by himself is too easily defended.  One criticism many Calvin posters have made in recent years is the tendency for Calvin players to appear to be standing around "waiting for someone to do something".  Without another player or two capable, and willing, to step up and "make things happen" I tend to agree it is going to be a long bball season for Calvin, and the results will be all to similar to recent years.

[Knight2Day]

As I see it, the starting lineup stands to be Kruis, DeBoer, Snikkers, Haverdink, Powell.

Don't really like Powell being the primary ballhandler and playmaker but it might put more talent, size, and experience on the floor.

Why so down on Powell as a ball handler?

'10-11 Assist to turnover ratio:
Brink: .91
Powell: 1.59 (#7 in the MIAA, second on the team to Salo)

I wouldn't say I'm down on Powell as a ball handler, he has great handles. I'm down on the fact that he is a career 36% field goal shooter and 27% 3 point shooter that thinks he's a 50% shooter. I'm more down on the fact that it was painfully evident that he was intimidated by Brink last year that he would refuse to get him the ball and put up junk shots. If he had a truly distributing mindset, he would put up better assisting numbers than Krombeen. 

I believe that Snikkers will still have a dynamic season especially with Rietema in the backcourt and and some talent inside, but there's noone to stretch the floor and I see it once again being a "stand around and watch" offense....and when that happens, you don't score many points...and when you have a junk defensive system like Calvin does, you need to score a TON of points to win.

[realist]

I think Krombeen and his ever present hands are going to have a field day against Calvin this year.

One suspects that Mr. K. won't have an exclusive field day.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Here's the top single-season assist rates of Calvin players since 2002 (as far as the complete online data goes) for players playing in at least 25% of the available minutes (roughly 10 min per team game):
SR -- Ricky Shilts -- 2005 -- .236
JR – Jeremy Veenstra -- 2002 -- .223
SO -- Bryan Powell -- 2011 -- .223
SR -- Jeremy Veenstra -- 2003 -- .220
SR -- Josh Berghuis -- 2005 -- .220

Calvin career assist rates (same caveats):
Ricky Shilts -- .225
Jeremy Veenstra -- .222 (this only includes his JR and SR years)
Josh Vriesman -- .214
Bryan Powell -- .211

Assist rate is (an approximation of) the percentage of team's field goals a player assists on while on the floor.

Interesting stat - which lead me to look at the same for Hope's point guards last season.  Assuming I'm doing the calculation right...

Assist Rate = total assists / (% of time on the floor * total FG made)

Here is how they would stack up:

JR  David Krombeen .240
SO Colton Overway .260

KS - let me know if I have the calculation correct.  I would like to add it to my spreadsheet and compile the historical data for Hope.

[KnightSlappy]

Here’s the top single-season assist rates of Calvin players since 2002 (as far as the complete online data goes) for players playing in at least 25% of the available minutes (roughly 10 min per team game):
SR -- Ricky Shilts -- 2005 -- .236
JR – Jeremy Veenstra -- 2002 -- .223
SO -- Bryan Powell -- 2011 -- .223
SR -- Jeremy Veenstra -- 2003 -- .220
SR -- Josh Berghuis -- 2005 -- .220

Calvin career assist rates (same caveats):
Ricky Shilts -- .225
Jeremy Veenstra -- .222 (this only includes his JR and SR years)
Josh Vriesman -- .214
Bryan Powell -- .211

Assist rate is (an approximation of) the percentage of team’s field goals a player assists on while on the floor.

Interesting stat - which lead me to look at the same for Hope's point guards last season.  Assuming I'm doing the calculation right...

Assist Rate = total assists / (% of time on the floor * total FG made)

Here is how they would stack up:

JR  David Krombeen .240
SO Colton Overway .260

KS - let me know if I have the calculation correct.  I would like to add it to my spreadsheet and compile the historical data for Hope.

I do:

[assists] / ( ( [team FG made] x [%MIN] ) - [player FG made] )

where %MIN is [player min] / ( [team min] / 5)

Looks like you just want to subtract out the players' field goals from the bottomerator of the equation.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

KS - I get that I missed the subtract your own FG (can't really assist yourself now can you).  What I don't get is why you wouldn't subtract them from the total FG first, and then apply the % of minutes on the floor. 

[KnightSlappy]

KS - I get that I missed the subtract your own FG (can't really assist yourself now can you).  What I don't get is why you wouldn't subtract them from the total FG first, and then apply the % of minutes on the floor.

This is something I've gone back and forth on myself over the last few days, but I convinced myself with this:

Given:
My team made 1,000 FGs this year.
I was on the court for 50% of my team's minutes.
I had 100 assists this year.
I made 100 FGs this year.

Therefore:
I was on the court for 500 FGs this year (50% of the 1,000).
I made 100 of those FGs.
My teammates made 400 of those FGs.
I assited on 1 out of every 4 of my teammates FGs (100 out of 400).

[sac]

Not to be that guy.......but Holstege is Hope's all-time leader in assists (by 180) and steals, I think his stats reflect his value very well. 

[Flying Dutch Fan]

KS - I get that I missed the subtract your own FG (can't really assist yourself now can you).  What I don't get is why you wouldn't subtract them from the total FG first, and then apply the % of minutes on the floor.

This is something I've gone back and forth on myself over the last few days, but I convinced myself with this:

Given:
My team made 1,000 FGs this year.
I was on the court for 50% of my team's minutes.
I had 100 assists this year.
I made 100 FGs this year.

Therefore:
I was on the court for 500 FGs this year (50% of the 1,000).
I made 100 of those FGs.
My teammates made 400 of those FGs.
I assited on 1 out of every 4 of my teammates FGs (100 out of 400).

Thanks - makes sense to me.  As soon as I find some time, I'll calculate using that equation

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Adjusting the calculation, last year Hope PGs had these Assist Rate numbers:

JR David Krommbeen - .311
SO Colton Overway - .298

Not to be that guy.......but Holstege is Hope's all-time leader in assists (by 180) and steals, I think his stats reflect his value very well. 

And Holstege's numbers are (as expected) pretty impressive:

FR - .225
SO - .369
JR - .380
SR - .394