MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

KnightSlappy · November 30, 2011, 07:35:00 PM

ESPN is at least providing the score. http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/scoreboard?date=20111130&confId=14 though for these mid-major games, it's always a while between updates.

Hopester · November 30, 2011, 07:38:51 PM

Yeah they're kinda bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic, and better shooters...

hoopdreams · November 30, 2011, 07:55:10 PM

I'm not one to put words in someone else's mouth, but I'm pretty sure Mr. Bell implied that other than shattering a backboard once, NVA really didn't do anything in HS, especially relative to his gianormous stature. One would think that a team with him, Austin Harper and Noah Veach would have dominated the OK Red. Throw in a couple other solid athletes and you got........nothing.

DewCrewVett · November 30, 2011, 08:29:49 PM

A glaring hole that some Hope and Calvin fans have failed to really touch on is Hope's inability to hit the 3 pointer. Bowser and Tanis had a lot to do with that last year. Im not saying Bunn and Neil are not capable I am saying they need to find some consistent 3 point threats to get to the next level.

hoopdreams · November 30, 2011, 08:38:45 PM

I'm guessing 120+ between the two of them. Pretty clear based on stats from 5 games that their approach has really changed in year two A.VW. At the bottom of MIAA teams in %, makes and attempts, and I'm not saying its a bad thing. Unlike certain coaches who fail to adapt to their players and strengths, Coach Neil seems to have done so. Whether or not the change was out of necessity or not, remains to be seen, Maybe Jared M can return and let it fly, or Corey Williams, Steve "set shot" Hendrickson or Jack and/or Jonny Klunder?

alexj35 · November 30, 2011, 08:41:30 PM

Hope just hit three 3s in a row. They're scoring points, but can't stop Western down low. VanArendonk looks solid though

almcguirejr · November 30, 2011, 08:58:10 PM

WMU 80
Hope 58
Final

pointlem · November 30, 2011, 11:14:52 PM

Quote from: DewCrewVett on November 30, 2011, 08:29:49 PM
I am saying they need to find some consistent 3 point threats to get to the next level.

That was indeed true tonight, DewCrewVett . . . with 22 percent 3-point shooting, albeit with a number of shots rimming out. The bigger problem was Hope's getting massively outrebounded, because after an embarrassing 30 to 11 start, Hope basically played WMU even the rest of the way. They had no trouble with ball movement--only 14 TOs to WMUs 17.

Nate VA showed his future promise, with 5 of 6 shooting against the finest and biggest post players he'll likely see this season . . . and in less than 20 minutes (due to his usual foul trouble). Another bright spot was Billy Seiler, who played tonight like he wants to keep that starting position.

All in all, I went away thinking this was an encouraging and even courageous performance . . . closing the gap to within 12 in the 2nd half . . . after a rocky start.

oldknight · November 30, 2011, 11:36:07 PM

Quote from: Civic Minded on November 30, 2011, 04:03:20 PM
In case you haven't seen it, Alan Babbitt had a nice article about the Hope/WMU game in this morning's Sentinel:
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/sports_hope/x763153627/Alan-Babbitt-Hope-mens-basketball-talented-enough-to-make-Western-Michigan-game-interesting

Not sure what he means by "prideful," but I'll assume that he meant well. All in all, a nice counter to what we've been seeing coming out of Kalamazoo. Go Hope.

My WMU-grad son got us a pair of excellent chair-back seats in the first row of the second deck, right along the baseline. They proved to be a great spot to observe both on-court and off-court action at University Arena (If I'm oldknight, does that make my son youngbronco?).

Not having read the board all day, I wasn't aware of Alan Babbitt's article but read it after the game. I actually somewhat enjoyed Babbitt's piece (a first for me)--a somewhat snarky shot across the bow of the even snarkier Gazette columnist. At the game tonight I had a perfect line down press row and noticed Couch chatting amiably with Brian VanOchten. Babbitt was seated an armslength away and as far as I could tell, neither he nor Couch ever uttered a word to one another all night. Now I know why.

As for the game, the difference between the MAC pre-season West Division favorite (possibly a stretch) and the Flying Dutchmen was not so much quickness or basic skill level, but mostly strength. The inside power of players like Whitfield and Stainbrook is something with which Hope could not possibly compete. I actually thought Hope's backcourt acquited themselves pretty well, especially Krombeen who I thought was Hope's best player tonight. I think David scored nine points but he controlled the ball and the tempo very nicely and had at least three steals, including two outright picks of WMU point guard Demetrius Ward.

Bunn was unable to get anything going, struggled to find an open look and really wasn't much of a factor but, to his credit, he didn't show frustration and fire up a lot of bad shots. I think Peter can effectively play what amounts to a small forward position at the D3 level but that's a lot to ask of him against a D1 opponent. This basically is the first time I've seen VanArendonk play since I saw him in high school and his footwork still needs to improve a lot. Because of his size he was able to be the best player on the floor in most of his high school games, but that isn't enough for him to dominate even in the MIAA.

Pretty nice turnout by the Hope crowd.

Flying Dutch Fan · December 01, 2011, 12:10:27 AM

Just saw the Hope / WMU score scroll by on ESPN. That's kinda cool!

sac · December 01, 2011, 01:38:54 AM

Well I enjoyed it and it went about as expected. I thought Western had to play pretty well to do what they did and that's probably a credit to Hope's effort.

In order for the little guys to beat the big guys, usually you have to see an off-night vs an on-night from the little guys. I can't say Hope was on, and for sure Western wasn't off. It also doesn't hurt to have a huge night shooting 3's and Hope just isn't that kind of team, and a struggling WMU team coming in actually ended up with a pretty decent night from behind the arc.

As Oldknight mentioned the biggest disadvantage was the massive difference in size (by size I mean weight and height combined). Hope was giving up 25-30 lbs a man just about everywhere. Western made a really strong effort to hit the boards, and were rewarded with multiple 2nd chances, pretty much defined the game.

Not that it matters much but I'm also kind of in the same boat with oldknight on WMU's prospects to win the MAC West, not sure. They seem to be missing a player or two but I guess that is probably the MAC.

West Division Predicted Order of Finish
1. Western Michigan - 128 points (14)
2. Ball State - 111 points (9)
3. Central Michigan - 92 points (1)
4. Toledo - 76 points
5. Northern Illinois - 59 points
6. Eastern Michigan - 38 points

WMU was a solid favorite, but Ball State seemed to get a lot of love as well.

One interesting note: Western started G David Ward over 6-7 F Nate Hutcheson, so the Broncos went small to counter Hope's 3 guard offense, and for the most part I think they stuck with 3 guards on the floor most of the night.

sac · December 01, 2011, 01:54:13 AM

One last tidbit for some perspective.

The last time Hope and Western played each other Calvin wasn't even in the MIAA. That seems way too long for these two schools to not play each other. Hopefully the next meeting happens sooner than 60 years from now.

almcguirejr · December 01, 2011, 08:18:09 AM

Kalamazoo Gazette article about last night's game: http://www.mlive.com/broncos/index.ssf/2011/12/jarring_screen_awakens_wmu_bas.html

Couch seems pretty fair here.

Holland Sentinel article: http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1517592729/Hope-mens-basketball-falls-to-Division-I-Western

1 more from the Sentinel: http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x337217096/More-from-Hope-College-Western-Michigan-mens-basketball

SBell · December 01, 2011, 10:55:31 AM

Quote from: DewCrewVett on November 30, 2011, 08:29:49 PM
A glaring hole that some Hope and Calvin fans have failed to really touch on is Hope's inability to hit the 3 pointer. Bowser and Tanis had a lot to do with that last year. Im not saying Bunn and Neil are not capable I am saying they need to find some consistent 3 point threats to get to the next level.

"You can never have enough shooters in small college basketball" -- Tom Kempf, former Aquinas assistant, now Lawrence Tech head coach.

calvin_grad · December 01, 2011, 11:14:34 AM

Quote from: DewCrewVett on November 30, 2011, 08:29:49 PM
A glaring hole that some Hope and Calvin fans have failed to really touch on is Hope's inability to hit the 3 pointer. Bowser and Tanis had a lot to do with that last year. Im not saying Bunn and Neil are not capable I am saying they need to find some consistent 3 point threats to get to the next level.

Calvin isn't exactly lighting it up, either.