MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Gregory Sager]

For those of us that have been watching Calvin regularly this year, our expectations are always for better results.  But, in watching this young team that lost four seniors and only has one senior this year, a non-starter, there is lot to hang one's hat on.  Young players are getting put into the mix, chemistry is getting figured out, and there are signs of good things to come.  When league play starts, I expect them to be ready.  There have been solid contributions from newer players like Vallie, Mast, DeBoer, VanEck and DeVries.  The current weakness is at the point and there are too many turnovers.  The adjusted offense to accomodate the taller than usual team is beginning to show and there is confidence building each week.  The outstrectched arms of Kruis, DeVries a nd Dykstra are making it difficult for teams to go inside.  With the exception of the Wheaton game, this team has shown composure at the end of games and they have been able to close them out.  I, for one, am looking forward to a good MIAA season for the Knights.

Regarding the other teams this weekend:
Carthage, like Calvin, is still a work in progress.  They are too well coached, however, to be counted out.
Wheaton is talented but did not show themselves to be as deep as the other teams represented this weekend.
Hope can't be beat when they keep lighting it up at 60%.  Weakness is inside, strength is outside.

Congratulations to KVS for picking up his 300th win while coaching Calvin teams on Friday night.

For whatever reason, Wheaton rarely seems to go deeper than a 7 or 8 man rotation.

Wheaton's never been a deep team, not simply in terms of rotation but also in terms of roster. Wheaton doesn't recruit in large numbers, and that's not simply a men's basketball observation. Wheaton rosters are usually the smallest, or second- or third-smallest, in the league in any given sport. So, when someone says that Wheaton is not as deep as other teams, it's really no revelation at all.

Wheaton tends to make up for its comparative lack of depth by annually being the best-conditioned team in the CCIW. Even if a Wheaton team only goes seven or eight deep in the rotation, you rarely see another team wear Wheaton down. Where the lack of depth tends to hurt the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance is in the injury department, although this year I don't think that that's as much of a problem. The Wheaton team you saw this past weekend was missing one of last year's starters, Jon DeMoss, who is out with a high ankle sprain ... and yet the Wheaties still acquitted themselves well in Grand Rapids.

[wiz]

For those of us that have been watching Calvin regularly this year, our expectations are always for better results.  But, in watching this young team that lost four seniors and only has one senior this year, a non-starter, there is lot to hang one's hat on.  Young players are getting put into the mix, chemistry is getting figured out, and there are signs of good things to come.  When league play starts, I expect them to be ready.  There have been solid contributions from newer players like Vallie, Mast, DeBoer, VanEck and DeVries.  The current weakness is at the point and there are too many turnovers.  The adjusted offense to accomodate the taller than usual team is beginning to show and there is confidence building each week.  The outstrectched arms of Kruis, DeVries a nd Dykstra are making it difficult for teams to go inside.  With the exception of the Wheaton game, this team has shown composure at the end of games and they have been able to close them out.  I, for one, am looking forward to a good MIAA season for the Knights.

Regarding the other teams this weekend:
Carthage, like Calvin, is still a work in progress.  They are too well coached, however, to be counted out.
Wheaton is talented but did not show themselves to be as deep as the other teams represented this weekend.
Hope can't be beat when they keep lighting it up at 60%.  Weakness is inside, strength is outside.

Congratulations to KVS for picking up his 300th win while coaching Calvin teams on Friday night.

For whatever reason, Wheaton rarely seems to go deeper than a 7 or 8 man rotation.

Wheaton's never been a deep team, not simply in terms of rotation but also in terms of roster. Wheaton doesn't recruit in large numbers, and that's not simply a men's basketball observation. Wheaton rosters are usually the smallest, or second- or third-smallest, in the league in any given sport. So, when someone says that Wheaton is not as deep as other teams, it's really no revelation at all.

Wheaton tends to make up for its comparative lack of depth by annually being the best-conditioned team in the CCIW. Even if a Wheaton team only goes seven or eight deep in the rotation, you rarely see another team wear Wheaton down. Where the lack of depth tends to hurt the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance is in the injury department, although this year I don't think that that's as much of a problem. The Wheaton team you saw this past weekend was missing one of last year's starters, Jon DeMoss, who is out with a high ankle sprain ... and yet the Wheaties still acquitted themselves well in Grand Rapids.

Understood.  Thanks for the clarification.  I am curious what is behind Wheaton's philosophy of not recruiting deeper in their sports.  They certainly have talent and the school excels academically and athletically.  Can you expand on their rationale for limiting their recruiting?  They did acquit themselves well in Grand Rapids and nearly went home with two victories.  Of course, they also nearly went home with two losses.

Also, what's your take on Carthage? I suspect they'll do some damage this year but would like to get your opinion.

And on a personal note, I miss seeing the Vikings in Grand Rapids.  Back in the 80's Calvin hosted the NCAA DIII tournament for a few years and North Park dominated.  Was really a strong program and fun to watch North Park's historic run of championships.  Although Grand Rapids didn't get to see McCarrell's three consecutive championships, there was a coach named Bosco that did it a couple more times at North Park.

[wwjjdd]

NVA is a FRESHMAN 6-10 Division 3 college center. 

[Gregory Sager]

For those of us that have been watching Calvin regularly this year, our expectations are always for better results.  But, in watching this young team that lost four seniors and only has one senior this year, a non-starter, there is lot to hang one's hat on.  Young players are getting put into the mix, chemistry is getting figured out, and there are signs of good things to come.  When league play starts, I expect them to be ready.  There have been solid contributions from newer players like Vallie, Mast, DeBoer, VanEck and DeVries.  The current weakness is at the point and there are too many turnovers.  The adjusted offense to accomodate the taller than usual team is beginning to show and there is confidence building each week.  The outstrectched arms of Kruis, DeVries a nd Dykstra are making it difficult for teams to go inside.  With the exception of the Wheaton game, this team has shown composure at the end of games and they have been able to close them out.  I, for one, am looking forward to a good MIAA season for the Knights.

Regarding the other teams this weekend:
Carthage, like Calvin, is still a work in progress.  They are too well coached, however, to be counted out.
Wheaton is talented but did not show themselves to be as deep as the other teams represented this weekend.
Hope can't be beat when they keep lighting it up at 60%.  Weakness is inside, strength is outside.

Congratulations to KVS for picking up his 300th win while coaching Calvin teams on Friday night.

For whatever reason, Wheaton rarely seems to go deeper than a 7 or 8 man rotation.

Wheaton's never been a deep team, not simply in terms of rotation but also in terms of roster. Wheaton doesn't recruit in large numbers, and that's not simply a men's basketball observation. Wheaton rosters are usually the smallest, or second- or third-smallest, in the league in any given sport. So, when someone says that Wheaton is not as deep as other teams, it's really no revelation at all.

Wheaton tends to make up for its comparative lack of depth by annually being the best-conditioned team in the CCIW. Even if a Wheaton team only goes seven or eight deep in the rotation, you rarely see another team wear Wheaton down. Where the lack of depth tends to hurt the Sonic Atmospheric Disturbance is in the injury department, although this year I don't think that that's as much of a problem. The Wheaton team you saw this past weekend was missing one of last year's starters, Jon DeMoss, who is out with a high ankle sprain ... and yet the Wheaties still acquitted themselves well in Grand Rapids.

Understood.  Thanks for the clarification.  I am curious what is behind Wheaton's philosophy of not recruiting deeper in their sports.  They certainly have talent and the school excels academically and athletically.  Can you expand on their rationale for limiting their recruiting?  They did acquit themselves well in Grand Rapids and nearly went home with two victories.  Of course, they also nearly went home with two losses.

Academic selectivity is probably a part of it, although I also frequently hear Wheaton people gripe about the combination of the school's expensiveness and its parsimony in terms of financial aid. Then there's the factor of the school's recruiting philosophy, which is national in scope and which has a strikingly small local footprint that basically consists of Wheaton's immediate area in the western suburbs, specifically Wheaton Academy, Wheaton-Warrenville South, and Wheaton North. I've had Wheaton coaches tell me that they have no familiarity at all with large sections of Chicagoland, because they've never recruited anyone at the high schools in those parts of the metro area. This is a striking contrast to the rest of the CCIW, in which every coach (even the coaches from Millikin way down there in Decatur) knows Chicagoland suburbs and the high schools therein like the back of his or her hand. Since students across America are much more inclined to attend a college within 200 miles of home, Wheaton purposefully bucks a national trend by not at least dabbling more in local recruiting.

Wheaton College is a time-honored brand among evangelicals, so it enjoys plenty of national name recognition, but it's still heavily dependent upon alumni support in terms of identifying and wooing prospective Wheaton students. It's an independent school, so, unlike Calvin, North Park, and other denominationally-based Christian schools, it doesn't have an affiliated network of churches across the country that can supply it with students. Wheaton's dependence upon alumni in passing along to the school the names of prospects is just as true for student-athletes as it is for students at large.

Also, what's your take on Carthage? I suspect they'll do some damage this year but would like to get your opinion.

Bosko's got a relatively young team this year. As he's done in the past, he's using November and December to sort through a pretty big roster filled with frosh and sophs, spreading playing time thin among a lot of people early in the season in order to make an informed decision as to who belongs in his rotation and who doesn't. He certainly has plenty of talent, but I suspect that the Red Men may be a year away from making a run at the CCIW title.

And on a personal note, I miss seeing the Vikings in Grand Rapids.

Me, too. I was sorely disappointed that the two NPU head basketball coaches at the time (men's and women's) chose to forego the opportunity to be a part of the CCIW/MIAA Challenge when it was started eight years ago, thus opening it up for Carthage to be the fourth participating school. I thought it was a mistake for North Park basketball, and I still do. Beyond that, I would really like to see NPU resume playing Calvin and Hope. I even buttonholed Glenn Van Wieren at an NCAA tourney game a few years ago and asked him to schedule North Park. It's an ideal situation for both Michigan teams to play NPU, as both have large Chicagoland alumni bases and both are within 200 miles of the corner of Foster & Kedzie on Chicago's North Side.

Back in the 80's Calvin hosted the NCAA DIII tournament for a few years and North Park dominated.  Was really a strong program and fun to watch North Park's historic run of championships.

Two of the best weekends of my life were spent in Grand Rapids, at the '85 and '87 Final Fours. Grand Rapids, and what is now Van Noord Arena, will always have a special place in my heart because of the two North Park national championships I saw there.

Although Grand Rapids didn't get to see McCarrell's three consecutive championships, there was a coach named Bosco that did it a couple more times at North Park.

Yep ... and don't forget that Bosko Djurickovic was Dan McCarrell's assistant coach for those first three national titles.

[wiz]

Two of the best weekends of my life were spent in Grand Rapids, at the '85 and '87 Final Fours. Grand Rapids, and what is now Van Noord Arena, will always have a special place in my heart because of the two North Park national championships I saw there.

Actually, the Van Noord Arena is a new facilitiy located within the Spoelhof Sports Complex.  The gym you watched the games in during the 80's was in what is now known as the Hoogenboom Health & Recreation Center.  Today is is used for gym classes and intramural basketball along with other activites.  http://www.calvin.edu/map/sfc/  The Van Noord Arena, by the way, would make a great facility to host this tournament again.

And I enjoyed a weekend basketball game at North Park in the old, small gym, but the game was between Calvin and Central College in Pella, Iowa.  Calvin's young strong man, Bill DeHorn, battled against Central's tough guy, Vern DenHerder, who later went on to have a wonderful career with the Miami Dolphins.

There is a lot of subtle and not so subtle bragging on these boards but we are all humbled by the 5 national championships of the North Park Vikings.

[Gregory Sager]

That Calvin vs. Central game was about ten years before my time, but I remember reading somewhere that Vern Den Herder held the rebounding record for the North Park Christmas Tournament. Since I grew up a Bills fan, I certainly didn't care much for Den Herder and his cohorts on those magnificent Griese-era Dolphins teams.

That used to be a pretty good holiday tournament, but by the time I came around North Park had decided to save guarantee money by inviting the commuter school three blocks down Foster Avenue, Northeastern Illinois University, to be an annual participant. NEIU, which was an NAIA program until it chose to switch to the NCAA and go D1 in the late '80s (it abruptly disbanded its athletic department in '98), always had horrible basketball teams, and North Park invariably scheduled NEIU for the opening round. Took a lot of fun, and a lot of competitiveness, out of the tournament.

North Park eventually discontinued the tourney in the late '80s, which was just as well. Since the tourney was held over winter break, and the majority of North Park's resident undergraduates are out-of-staters, it was generally played in front of very sparse crowds.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Hope at #23 in the latest top 25 poll. Wheaton drops from 13 to 17.

[sac]

Two of the best weekends of my life were spent in Grand Rapids,

I don't know what to say. 

[sac]

Tonights games


Alma @ Ferris State 7pm --  Its been awhile since Alma's been on a basketball floor.  Ferris is 4-3, 2 of those losses coming to Michigan and Central Michigan.  One of those wins a 36 point defeat of Olivet.  Expect something similar but maybe not quite that similar.


You can actually watch this one online if you'd like.  http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/ferris.portal#



Trine @ Purdue-North Central --  Besides being an annoying bank, PNC doesn't appear to be very good at basketball.  The Panthers are just 2-7 on the year, they lost to Andrews.  Trine could probably win this without Ian Jackson though I doubt they'll try that.  If they lose they should walk home.

Thankfully you can't watch this online.


PNC is the 4th team in this weekends Holland Sentinel Community Classic at Hope, they will play Mt. Vernon Nazarene and Marian.  (and probably lose)

[OC_SID]

You can actually watch this one online if you'd like.  http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/ferris.portal#

Ferris will charge you to watch the game on the Internet. I can't remember what it was, but I did not pay for it.

[ziggy]

You can actually watch this one online if you'd like.  http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/ferris.portal#

Ferris will charge you to watch the game on the Internet. I can't remember what it was, but I did not pay for it.

$7.95 for the event, $60 for a season's worth of Ferris State Men's basketball home games or $175 for the all sports pass.

[calvinknightfan]

NVA is a FRESHMAN 6-10 Division 3 college center. 

Look, I'm not here to "rip" on anyone in particular.  All I'm saying is he looked bad IN THE GAME I SAW, for any level of college player.  What I saw would have been bad for a junior or senior in high school.  He is 6-10 and could not even finish easy put backs IN THE GAME I SAW.  And if you want to play the freshman card, he is also a D-1 transfer who was with CMU last year.  He is the same age as Tyler Kruis.  But, regardless, I wish him the best and Hope (pun intended) that he continues to develop his game!

[ChicagoHopeNut]

NVA is a FRESHMAN 6-10 Division 3 college center. 

Look, I'm not here to "rip" on anyone in particular.  All I'm saying is he looked bad IN THE GAME I SAW, for any level of college player.  What I saw would have been bad for a junior or senior in high school.  He is 6-10 and could not even finish easy put backs IN THE GAME I SAW.  And if you want to play the freshman card, he is also a D-1 transfer who was with CMU last year.  He is the same age as Tyler Kruis.  But, regardless, I wish him the best and Hope (pun intended) that he continues to develop his game!

I haven't seen NVA in except for a bit of the video feed from Calvin last weekend. I've been disappointed in the numbers he posted. I expected more from a D1 tranfers but that may not be fair. One recent example, Marcus VanderHeide, was not the same player his first year at Hope as he was as a senior. Given some time to grow as a player he may develop into a strong post presence. If Hope is lucky, he'll improve over his career in the way Don Overbeek did.

[ziggy]

NVA is a FRESHMAN 6-10 Division 3 college center. 

Look, I'm not here to "rip" on anyone in particular.  All I'm saying is he looked bad IN THE GAME I SAW, for any level of college player.  What I saw would have been bad for a junior or senior in high school.  He is 6-10 and could not even finish easy put backs IN THE GAME I SAW.  And if you want to play the freshman card, he is also a D-1 transfer who was with CMU last year.  He is the same age as Tyler Kruis.  But, regardless, I wish him the best and Hope (pun intended) that he continues to develop his game!

I haven't seen NVA in except for a bit of the video feed from Calvin last weekend. I've been disappointed in the numbers he posted. I expected more from a D1 tranfers but that may not be fair. One recent example, Marcus VanderHeide, was not the same player his first year at Hope as he was as a senior. Given some time to grow as a player he may develop into a strong post presence. If Hope is lucky, he'll improve over his career in the way Don Overbeek did.

As someone that only saw Don Overbeek as a "finished" product, this terrifies me. Fortunately, Calvin has someone like Tyler Kruis this time around.

[alexj35]

Alma beating Ferris 30-26 at half!