MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[wiz]

It looks as though Hope just escaped a bad mistake by the skin of their teeth. Selecting the right person as the next college president makes a huge difference to a college. You need someone with wisdom, grace, and especially, good judgment. But, sometimes you just don't know a person until he is really tested.

Hope had one candidate remaining for the next college president, a candidate everyone was enthusiastic about. However, that candidate revealed in the 11th hour his very bad judgment by withdrawing his name from Hope's search when Calvin selected him as their sole candidate for president.

Phew! Saved!

I'm not sure how to interpret this. Are you saying you're glad for Hope? Are you saying you're upset for Calvin? Are you questioning his integrity?

Both Hope's and Calvin's Presidents retired the same years. Both schools scheduled their searches coterminously. Both schools alighted upon the same candidate. Both schools interviewed this candidate. Both schools liked this candidate, which speaks to his abilities and character. The candidate, after interviewing at both schools, had a difficult choice to make. We both read the same Bible. We both pray to the same God. The prayers of both could not be answered. The prayers of neither have been answered fully. But I can see no reason in any of this to accuse the candidate of a lack of integrity. He went to both schools in good faith, genuinely interested in being president at either, but unable to be president at both. He had to make a choice and made it. That's not his problem nor an exercise of "very bad judgment." In fact, he was in a position where he couldn't make a bad choice.

For the humor-impaired: 

Pardon me. "Differently humored."

It wasn't funny because it didn't refer to anything. I can assure you no one I know at Hope thinks they dodged a bullet.

I didn't think you could read it any other way than "Whew. We didn't want anyone that would be interested in Calvin, now would we!?!". I thought the  was implied.

If Hope fans don't want a president that has had an interest in Calvin, they just might be in for a surprise.  Could be interesting to get HopeConvert's perspective on this.

[Civic Minded]

The amount of mutual misreading (or mutual un-funniness) going on today is epic!  (But not necessarily funny.)   

[Civic Minded]

I find it somewhat surprising that Calvin would select someone with a PC(USA) background.

(and FWIW, Whitworth has football)

Why would you be surprised?  There is not much difference politically/theologically between the PCUSA and the CRC.

A Calvin professor would not be permitted to be a member of/attend a PCUSA church and retain his/her teaching post, so there must be some differences (at least that's my understanding, that professors must either be CRC or another denomination that's in 'ecclesiastical fellowship' with the CRC, which PCUSA is not).

I'm a 'non-denom' guy myself, so I'm definitely not implying that strict denomination borders ever be drawn, just saying I was somewhat surprised.

I believe the EPC is in "ecclesiastical fellowship" with the CRC, the PCUSA is not.

That may be true, but the CRC does have a close working relationship with the PCUSA, at least in the realm of education.

[oldknight]

Just trying to keep my head low and powder dry while the relative merits and demerits over board humor issues get debated. We all knew that sooner or later Calvin would branch out and tab a new President who did not have his childhood roots firmly placed in traditional CRC denominational dirt. I guess now is the time. I'm pleased to hear the search committee found a person who seems well-balanced between the academic and athletic. I trust he will have his priorities in order the day of a Rivalry game.

Generally speaking, the PCUSA is seen as more 'liberal' than the EPC and the PCA, but individual congregations have varying mindsets. I'm told that many in the northwest part of the US are more conservative than those out east. My brother, 11 years my elder (I guess that would make him reallyoldknight) recently retired to Idaho. He's a pretty conservative guy and he attends a PCUSA congregation.

[goodknight]

Dr. Le Roy would be an outstanding leader at Hope College or Calvin College.
Calvin is extremely fortunate to have attracted him.
I'm rooting for Hope to select an equally excellent (but not better) candidate.
It's time to get beyond the petty denominational distinctions.

[northb]

Dr. Le Roy would be an outstanding leader at Hope College or Calvin College.
Calvin is extremely fortunate to have attracted him.
I'm rooting for Hope to select an equally excellent (but not better) candidate.
It's time to get beyond the petty denominational distinctions.

Let's have a co-president!  He could preside over both institutions as a step toward rejoining the CRC and the RCA.  Think of the powerhouse teams we would have!  I suggest Calvin and Calvin West! 

[ziggy]

Generally speaking, the PCUSA is seen as more 'liberal' than the EPC and the PCA, but individual congregations have varying mindsets. I'm told that many in the northwest part of the US are more conservative than those out east. My brother, 11 years my elder (I guess that would make him reallyoldknight) recently retired to Idaho. He's a pretty conservative guy and he attends a PCUSA congregation.

This is very true, although there has been a migration of the more "conservative" PCUSA congregations towards the EPC in recent years. The denomination's presence in the West is not as large as it is in the midwest considering it originated in Livonia, MI.

[HopeConvert]

The amount of mutual misreading (or mutual un-funniness) going on today is epic!  (But not necessarily funny.)   

Yeah, but I don't think I misread DK. His post wasn't clever or funny. Or gracious.

[sac]

Bethany 68 Olivet 48

Olivet hung in there with Bethany in the first half, things looked ominous early as the Bison broke an 11-11 tie and scored 9 straight to take command.  Olivet made some substitutions, none of them I thought would be better, but all of them were in fact better and Ryan Burghdorf and Paul Lombard provided a better ball handler and a large body in the paint to counter the Bison's very aggressive rebounding.  It worked for the most part and Olivet clawed back in it to make it a 2 point game at the break.

The second half started and the wheels just simply came off the trolly for the Comets right off the first possession with an easy Bethany basket and then a steal and layup on the in-bounds.  I think the story of the second half was turnovers.  Numerous in quantity and careless in quality.  The final margin was 22 but this was a 30 point game a little more than midway through the half.  I think the really disappointing thing for the Comets will be realizing they lost by 22 but gave up well  over half of those in simple, terrible turnovers in the back court that led to Bethany layups.  The stat sheet will probably also show Bethany out-rebounded the Comets by a pretty large margin.

Olivet is going to struggle on offense in a lot of games.  My honest assessment is that given the current lineup they will have done very well to finish better than 7th in the league.  It's basically last years role players and a few Fr. or JC transfers who don't really stand out.  Unless they find steady and reliable offensive production, things will be tough.


Bethany played a full court defense for most of the game and dropped into a zone in the half-court, I'll call it JCU-lite.  Aggressive when they want to be, passive when its prudent.  Offensively however I think they're much more patient and willing to work half court sets.  Personnel wise they have two athletic kids who are absolute ball hawks around the boards, a very steady point guard who can score and shoot, and two guys 6-3 who were pretty much smaller versions of Jessie Reimink in stature and the way they played the game, especially around the basket.

I think Bethany's probably a pretty good team, they seem really confident and comfortable in what they do.  However they stick with a pretty strict 6 man rotation.  The only subs I saw outside of the 6 main players came late when the game was over, or due to injury or fouls.  I could see on any given night they could give some of the better Great Lakes teams trouble, but lets be honest they beat an Olivet team that is 1-7 and will probably struggle at the bottom of the MIAA.....Bethany should have won this by 20.  There wasn't much here tonight to alter my view of the PrAC.


Quote of the night came from Bethany Head Coach Andrew Sachs, turning to his assistant with his team up 24 late in the 2nd half......."we just aren't getting any calls".    Former Olivet coach Gary Morrison was there and the sparse crowd made it easy to hear him complaining about the Bethany coaches complaints.

*  I counted 61 in attendance at tip-off, I need to start giving more credit to Olivet's students for showing up.  Even thought they don't gather as a group, they at least help fill the place out.  With the students gone.....it was empty.

**  Another of the 1,000+ reasons small college basketball is awesome......game time was around 1 hour and 20 minutes.

[Dark Knight]

The amount of mutual misreading (or mutual un-funniness) going on today is epic!  (But not necessarily funny.)   

Yeah, but I don't think I misread DK. His post wasn't clever or funny. Or gracious.

In case it's unclear, I have the highest respect for the Le Roys -- I've known them for years.

Obviously my lame attempt at levity was ill-considered under the circumstances. Sorry for any offense.

[arena]

I find it somewhat surprising that Calvin would select someone with a PC(USA) background.

(and FWIW, Whitworth has football)

Why would you be surprised?  There is not much difference politically/theologically between the PCUSA and the CRC.

A Calvin professor would not be permitted to be a member of/attend a PCUSA church and retain his/her teaching post, so there must be some differences (at least that's my understanding, that professors must either be CRC or another denomination that's in 'ecclesiastical fellowship' with the CRC, which PCUSA is not).

I'm a 'non-denom' guy myself, so I'm definitely not implying that strict denomination borders ever be drawn, just saying I was somewhat surprised.

Doesn't go to my point though.  Rules like that can and will change all the time.  Look at all the supposed Reformed organizations both denoms belong too.  You'll see there is not much difference.  Both are fairly liberal.

[Dark Knight]

I find it somewhat surprising that Calvin would select someone with a PC(USA) background.

(and FWIW, Whitworth has football)

Why would you be surprised?  There is not much difference politically/theologically between the PCUSA and the CRC.

A Calvin professor would not be permitted to be a member of/attend a PCUSA church and retain his/her teaching post, so there must be some differences (at least that's my understanding, that professors must either be CRC or another denomination that's in 'ecclesiastical fellowship' with the CRC, which PCUSA is not).

I'm a 'non-denom' guy myself, so I'm definitely not implying that strict denomination borders ever be drawn, just saying I was somewhat surprised.

Doesn't go to my point though.  Rules like that can and will change all the time.  Look at all the supposed Reformed organizations both denoms belong too.  You'll see there is not much difference.  Both are fairly liberal.

The PC USA is quite diverse--in fact, it's been close to splitting at the seams for the last decade or two. There are many congregations that would fit in well with the CRC, but the majority are quite a bit more liberal.

The EPC, on the other hand, is about as close to the CRC as you can get without having a preponderance of names starting with "van" or ending in "a".

[goodknight]

This is yet another generalization, but most of the Calvin grads I know (and I know a few) might be more at home theologically in a vibrant PCUSA congregation than in many (if not most) CRC congregations.  I was visiting Chicago's Fourth Presbyterian Church a couple of Sundays ago, and I bumped into a number of Calvin grads who either are members there or were in town for the weekend and looking for a comely and familiar place of worship during the advent season.
It's an interesting development that Calvin's student body today is less than 40 percent CRC, although a chunk of the "non-CRC" kids are legacy students whose Calvin-grad parents have left the cultural cocoon of the CRC for other denominational homes in the past quarter-century.  Some have found a home in more liberal churches, while others have landed in more evangelical and conservative churches.
Clearly, Calvin is a far more diverse place than it was in my time as a student -- the early years of the Knollcrest campus, and the last gasp of the Franklin Street campus -- when more than 90 percent came from the confines of the CRC, and almost an equally large percentage marked their hair blonde and their eyes blue on their Michigan, New Jersey, Illinois and Ontario driver's license. 
The search committee doubtless had applicants from a wide array of candidates, and I'd wager a box of King peppermunts that the majority of those candidates did not currently attend a CRC.
My sense is that the committee selected the best person for the job at hand.  And don't worry, CRC traditionalists and hegemonists -- he and his family will certainly find a CRC in Grand Rapids where a convinced Presbyterian can cheerfully worship.  Of course, he may have to sneak down to Chicago a few times a year for some home cooking.

[Super Dutchmen]

The amount of mutual misreading (or mutual un-funniness) going on today is epic!  (But not necessarily funny.)   

Yeah, but I don't think I misread DK. His post wasn't clever or funny. Or gracious.

In case it's unclear, I have the highest respect for the Le Roys -- I've known them for years.

Obviously my lame attempt at levity was ill-considered under the circumstances. Sorry for any offense.

I think it is time to revive a certain gif

[wiz]

The amount of mutual misreading (or mutual un-funniness) going on today is epic!  (But not necessarily funny.)   

Yeah, but I don't think I misread DK. His post wasn't clever or funny. Or gracious.

In case it's unclear, I have the highest respect for the Le Roys -- I've known them for years.

Obviously my lame attempt at levity was ill-considered under the circumstances. Sorry for any offense.

I think it is time to revive a certain gif

And all God's people say "Amen!".