MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Hopetix]

My guess with the SNL references is possibly an intern or writer who knows of these schools, or went to these schools. I have a comedian friend who used to write for SNL years back who worked all over the college market. Just a thought of where those D3 references may have come from. When I heard it I had to rewind it to make sure I heard correctly

[AndersDY]

Actually it was a fake commercial advertising even more obscure bowl games with even dumber names that included more sponsors. I can't remember the pseudo-bowl names, but the very first one pitted Albion College against something like Morehead St and a later game also included Wheaton College. I couldn't find that skit video with a quick look on NBC's website though.

[Knight2Day]

Actually it was a fake commercial advertising even more obscure bowl games with even dumber names that included more sponsors. I can't remember the pseudo-bowl names, but the very first one pitted Albion College against something like Morehead St and a later game also included Wheaton College. I couldn't find that skit video with a quick look on NBC's website though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WFFYBLuaz8

[Knight2Day]

Albion 64 Calvin 59 

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/1112/0107caal.htm

How many times over the years have we written off the Brits, and then boom.......their next game is vs Hope and for 1st place.  Amazing.


Kalamazoo 97 Olivet 83

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/1112/0107olkz.htm


Trine 79 Alma 56

http://www.miaa.org/mbb/stats/1112/0107tram.htm

Next game for Trine is a big one hosting Adrian

SAC,
I would like to agree with you that Albion is amazing, but I took in the Albion/Calvin game today and it's just not true.  This may be the worst Calvin team in my memory, which dates to the pre Ed Douma days (early 80's).  The sad thing for the Calvin players is that they have a lot of talent and size.  What they don't have is a coach who has a clue.  Case in point today...with 1:38 left in the game and Calvin down by 2, in a stroke of coaching genius, he took his best player (Tom Snikkers) out of the game and didn't put him back in until 2 seconds left to throw an in-bounds pass when they were down 3.  People around me were laughing out loud.  This along with a defensive system that doesn't work and an offense that doesn't put players in position to capitalize on what they do best.  It's just really sad.  The atmosphere in Van Noord arena is just dead.  Nobody cares anymore.  He's running a program with some great history into the ground.
As for Albion, well, they did what Albion teams usually do.  They played hard, hit some threes (all coaches who have coached in the MIAA for more than 3 minutes know that you just swing the ball to the weak side against Calvin and the 3 is wide open - even game winnners), but there's not a lot of talent there.  Hope should not have much trouble with them on Wednesday night.

On a more serious note than the SNL parody about the BCS....was at the game last night and saw a few friendly faces around the VN and that ended up being the best part of the night. I have to say, this is the first time in this young Knight's life that he has been somewhat embarrassed to be a fan of Calvin basketball. Like thealamascots and a few other Knight fans have pointed out, this team has given up. They don't want to play for KVS anymore and the only thing he is doing is running this program into the ground. I realize he probably thinks that people are going to let him off the hook for this season being so terrible due to the injuries that have happened, but even with the injuries, the Knights still have quite a bit of talent on that team. You could see it in the players faces that this season is pretty much over to them and you can see in the majority of the fans that they're sick of excuses from Streek. I think he's a great Christian man, but I think that the time has come for him to walk away. The only thing that will happen if Calvin continues a downward slide is a loss in the area of recruiting and then things will only get worse.

[hoopdreams]

For a team, on Saturday, January7 during their second MIAA game of the season to have already given up?  To an outsider such as myself, this attitude speaks volumes about the character of THE PLAYERS on this team.  Maybe Tommy should have quit last year like all the "rumors" suggested he wanted to.

Calvin's scheme is predictable but so are any other team if you watch them play, over and over.  After watching GVW-led Hope games for 20+ years, those games played like clockwork....sub patterns, much needed rants, etc....you could leave for a 10 minute "stretch" and know exactly what happened. That is what's so exciting about the Devos now, new look and philosphy and random substitution patterns based on the flow of the game and the needs of the team.  REVOLUTIONARY!!!!!  (Disclaimer: Karma fairies I'm not bashing GVW, it was, what it was)

FWIW-  I played for a coach that we collectively, as a team hated.  We didn't play for him.  We played for ourselves and our program- it's a little something called pride.  Maybe we played our asses off to spite him in some way.  If Calvin did give up, or even have the "look"as the previous post suggested,  someone should take their jerseys away.  Sure their are plenty of kids playing IM that would LOVE to play in that arena and would care about it- win or lose and regardless of who the coach is.

[wwjjdd]

For a team, on Saturday, January7 during their second MIAA game of the season to have already given up?  To an outsider such as myself, this attitude speaks volumes about the character of THE PLAYERS on this team.  Maybe Tommy should have quit last year like all the "rumors" suggested he wanted to.

Calvin's scheme is predictable but so are any other team if you watch them play, over and over.  After watching GVW-led Hope games for 20+ years, those games played like clockwork....sub patterns, much needed rants, etc....you could leave for a 10 minute "stretch" and know exactly what happened. That is what's so exciting about the Devos now, new look and philosphy and random substitution patterns based on the flow of the game and the needs of the team.  REVOLUTIONARY!!!!! (Disclaimer: Karma fairies I'm not bashing GVW, it was, what it was)

FWIW-  I played for a coach that we collectively, as a team hated.  We didn't play for him.  We played for ourselves and our program.  Maybe we played our asses off to spite him in some way.  If Calvin did give up, or even have the "look"as the previous post suggested,  someone should take their jerseys away.  Sure their are plenty of kids playing IM that would LOVE to play in that arena and would care about it- win or lose and regardless of who the coach is.

Amen!!

[Knight2Day]

For a team, on Saturday, January7 during their second MIAA game of the season to have already given up?  To an outsider such as myself, this attitude speaks volumes about the character of THE PLAYERS on this team.  Maybe Tommy should have quit last year like all the "rumors" suggested he wanted to.

Calvin's scheme is predictable but so are any other team if you watch them play, over and over.  After watching GVW-led Hope games for 20+ years, those games played like clockwork....sub patterns, much needed rants, etc....you could leave for a 10 minute "stretch" and know exactly what happened. That is what's so exciting about the Devos now, new look and philosphy and random substitution patterns based on the flow of the game and the needs of the team.  REVOLUTIONARY!!!!!  (Disclaimer: Karma fairies I'm not bashing GVW, it was, what it was)

FWIW-  I played for a coach that we collectively, as a team hated.  We didn't play for him.  We played for ourselves and our program- it's a little something called pride.  Maybe we played our asses off to spite him in some way.  If Calvin did give up, or even have the "look"as the previous post suggested,  someone should take their jerseys away.  Sure their are plenty of kids playing IM that would LOVE to play in that arena and would care about it- win or lose and regardless of who the coach is.

Hoopdreams, have to say you obviously haven't spent much time around Knollcrest as a student in recent years. There are a number of players who are playing IM and wouldn't play in the arena under KVS if you paid them to. I personally can list 4 players within the last 5 years who were SIGNIFICANT players who truly loved the game but didn't want to play for a man who was ruining the game for them and would rather just have fun playin IM. And BTW, there's a few guys who are currently on the team who have thought about going the same route.

[RuleBritannia]

The winningest active MIAA coach, 7 MIAA titles, 1 national title, 300+ career victories, a better than .700 winning percentage in MIAA games, and a coach who annually attracts much of top talent from the west side of the state to his school. Yeah, Fire That Guy!

[sac]

Looks like we might need to put away the sharp objects.   

[Knight2Day]

The winningest active MIAA coach, 7 MIAA titles, 1 national title, 300+ career victories, a better than .700 winning percentage in MIAA games, and a coach who annually attracts much of top talent from the west side of the state to his school. Yeah, Fire That Guy!

I'm happy that someone looks at things through rose-colored glasses. It's this type of attitude that keeps coaches like the ones who kept U of M and ND from competing for the last few years. Keep the guy because he had past success but isn't getting the job done anymore. That's the spirit.

How about we look at the fact that the majority of MIAA coaches are in their first 3 years of coaching, the MIAA is not what it used to be in terms of talent, the national title he won was with a team that a paper bag could have coached to victory with how good they were (he actually coached them OUT of the NC game in 2005 and I have that from the players who were ON the team), and when it comes to recruiting? Really? You have arguably the best (at least one of the top 2) facilities in the country. He probably could be getting even better talent if he expanded his mindset. You don't want me to get started on that subject though.

[RuleBritannia]

I'm an Albion guy, so I can't say I'm as familiar with the mindset over at Calvin as some others. But, as an Albion guy, my understanding of MIAA coaching is highly influenced by longtime Albion coach Mike Turner. People who have been around this board for a while can tell you Mike Turner was a great coach. But if you look at his historical records. Turner had a great first five years, and a GREAT final six years, in a 33 year career. He wasn't slumming it in the middle 22 years by any means, but it was up and down, a 16 win season here, a 12 win season there. Now, the expectations at Calvin are probably a little different than they are at Albion, but most coaches that have long multi-decade careers go through a few stretches that aren't as good as the historic norm. Sometimes that has to do with injuries, or plain bad-luck. Other times it has to do with factors the coach can control to some extent, recruiting, strategy, coaches sometimes get worn out. But KVS has a record of success and, in my opinion, has earned the opportunity to right the ship. You can't just go to Wal-Mart and find a coach with his track-record, especially considering his commitment to the values that Calvin espouses. Just my opinion though, other may feel free to disagree.

[scottiedawg]

As a Hope fan, I heartily endorse KVS as Calvin coach for years to come.

[Gregory Sager]

the national title he won was with a team that a paper bag could have coached to victory with how good they were

Who got those players to come to Calvin in the first place? That's not an accusatory question, it's a genuine inquiry on my part. Why did Veenstra, Foltice, Winkle, Burgess, Krosschell, Tubergen, etc., play basketball for the Knights? Did they attend Calvin because they were CRC, they loved basketball, and they would've worn a Knights uni on the hardwood even if a paper bag -- or something worse -- had been in charge? Or did KVS actually play a role in bringing them to Calvin to play basketball?

Be careful how you answer this, K2D. You cannot assume that, just because a kid has a denominational tie to a school or is a potential legacy student, or both, he will automatically enroll at that school, much less play a sport for it. I know this very well, because I am an alumnus of my own denomination's school and I've seen plenty of Evangelical Covenant kids who were good, D3-potential high-school athletes go to different D3 schools other than NPU over the years. Young people use all sorts of different criteria for choosing a particular college; denominational affiliation or family tradition are only two of them, and they're not always the criteria that end up winning out.

My knowledge of how Calvin recruits basketball players is pretty limited. I do know that it is much more denominationally focused than, say, North Park's (in large part because the Christian Reformed Church is much bigger than the Evangelical Covenant Church and thus provides a much more reliable recruiting pool, and also because the ECC has only one feeder high school while the CRC has many of them, and the ECC's isn't even a good feeder school for athletics as far as North Park is concerned; Minnehaha Academy up in Minneapolis has turned out many fine D3 basketball players over the years, but they've usually worn MIAC uniforms -- frequently Bethel's -- rather than NPU's royal blue and gold). There may be more of a sense among future Calvin student-athletes of, "I'm gonna go to Calvin and play my sport, and it doesn't really even matter who's coaching the team there," than there is at schools like North Park or Anderson or Bethel or Wisconsin Lutheran. In that case, KVS's impact upon the program in terms of its roster is lessened, and there may be more to what you're saying with your "paper bag" statement than would normally be the case.

But if there isn't, and if the identity, reputation, style, and personality of the head coach really does make a difference in whether or not a high-school basketball player chooses to attend Calvin and play for the Knights -- just as the identity, reputation, style, and personality of the head coach play a crucial role in recruiting at other schools -- then you are seriously selling KVS short with regard to the 2000 national championship. Why? Because the shape of the roster is determined by the head coach. Even if the head coach himself is not the guy who does the hands-on recruiting -- and, at most D3 schools, the head coach does at least some of the research, contact, scouting, and legwork of recruiting, even if he has an assistant coach or coaches who do most of it -- he is usually the program's director of personnel, the guy who hires and evaluates the assistants who are supposed to be procuring recruits, or who at least has a strong say-so in terms of who works under him. In other words, if the roster is deficient, then the buck stops with the head coach in terms of apportioning the blame. If the roster is great, then the head coach deserves a lion's share of the credit for it.

Recruiting is usually described as anything from 50% to 90% of college coaching. You can be the greatest X's-and-O's coach in the world, or the greatest practice coach (i.e., teacher) in the world, or the greatest game tactician in the world ... but if you don't have the horses, your success in the wins and losses department will be modest, at best. It all starts with getting the best players and the right players.

I am constantly amazed by how many people discuss coaching as though players just magically show up on campus. "Oh, he's not much of a coach. Anybody could've won with those players." Really? How do you think the players got there in the first place? Osmosis?

But, like I said, Calvin may simply be so different of an animal in terms of why players join that program that this doesn't apply.

[hoopdreams]

great post GS but you're using words that are too big and have too much depth.  Let's keep it simple.....

What exactly is the lure of IM for your buddies and current players?  Is it more "fun" beating inferior competition?  Is more "fun" not having to work hard, honor a commitment and laboring through the ups and downs of athletics.  Is it "more fun" to lose an IM game? 

Not only can adversity build character, it reveals it.  Seems as though the Knights have a bunch of "loser"s, at least in K2D's eyes (these are your friends?).

You're right K2D, I haven't been around campus lately and I don't have the connections you seem to have.  The one thing you fail to understand is that this situation is hardly new, its been going on forever in every sport.  This is something you might not understand yet, in your youthful, "no one could possibly understand" outlook at life.  Change the name on the jersey and it's all the same.

I've already referenced my own ancient experiences, I know people too, who played for GVW and hated him....as a coach.  I work with someone who played for Douma...and hated him. Kids hate playing for Wesley at GVSU, Hammer at AQ, and on and on and on

Lastly K2D, you seem to throw out a lot of "he said" "they said or I've been told"..... After raising a couple kids and coaching hundreds of others, I do know this much.  Teenagers/young adults have an uncanny gift of telling you exactly or only what they want you to know. It's not classified as lying but it is a knack for getting a sympathetic ear. 

I knew that losing Brink would have a huge impact on this years team. I thought he was clearly the most important player on last years team.  One would think that a fairly experienced crew could at least take on some of the responsibilities Jordan was going to take on.  Maybe if we didn't spend so much time mixing music, hangin at Raggs, thinking about playing IM or dreaming about what shoulda/coulda happened if....ouch, that was mean

[sac]

As a Hope fan, I heartily endorse KVS as Calvin coach for years to come.

Some smart minded Calvin 'fans' wanted Hope to hire to Neil for the same snarky reasons.  Careful what you wish for.