MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[northb]

Hope and Calvin fans had better just get used to the idea that the league they've dominated for most of the last 50 years no longer exists.  Brooks Miller and Mark White are fine coaches and they are both going to make their respective programs very competitive.   

Right now Adrian is just a better team than Calvin.

That is kind of like saying that this fairly temperate winter proves global warming.  In the 50+ years of Calvin/Hope domination, there have been lean periods for both teams.  But each time they have regrouped to return to the high level of competetion and success. 

[AlwaysHope]

  This was one of those games in which we didn't really lose, just ran out of time. 

Is this sort of like winning the game but not the score?

Reminds me of the quote attributed to the old Detroit Lion QB, Bobby Layne:  "I never lost a game, I just ran out of time."

[wiz]

  This was one of those games in which we didn't really lose, just ran out of time. 

Is this sort of like winning the game but not the score?

MaroonKnighty was probably thinking of the 2:46 mark of this video clip. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_5Aq_isM_E 

[sac]

I caught the last a couple seconds of the WMU Broncos post game coaches comments last night and they were in awe of what Miami(OH) did in the first half of their game yesterday.

http://www.wmubroncos.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPID=1924&DB_OEM_ID=4600&ATCLID=205370004

Miami shot 11-24 from the floor in the first half, ALL THREES!!!

[hoopdreams]

watched Cornerstone throttle AQ yesterday, and in the process hit 14-21 3's for the game.  With their being a nice pipeline from Tri-Unity to the "other" school on the Beltline, I wouldn't be surprised to see the former Hope/current GRCC sharp shooter end up there.  Coach Elders lets and encourages his shooters to let it fly!!!!

Any knowledge of either Hope or Calvin looking at the current TU roster?  There are 3-4 players who can definitely play at the next level.  I love Blaukamp's game,  and if the older Vennema played half as hard as his little bro, he would have been an all-american at Hope or CU.

[knights2000]

I don't think Adrian is a better team than Calvin this year, but I will acknowledge they are much better coached.

They've won 4 in a row against Calvin, time to maybe recognize they have some pretty good players, in fact probaby better players at more than a couple positions.  Not to mention as good of a bench as Adrian has had in some time.

If I'm not mistake Calvin fans would kill for a Brad Whitby or DeLano Collins right now.  I think every MIAA team would take Dennis Mason and Richaud Pack in a heartbeat.

I don't believe I have said anything that takes anything away from Adrian or any of the Adrian players.  They have a good group of players, and the coach has them well schooled in what it takes to get rebounds, positioning, passing, defense, and many of the other skills that lead to wins.  They executed a well designed game plan very well.  That just tells me the coach and his players are in sync.  I stand by my statement that it didn't hurt Adrian's cause that they knew what Calvin was going to do. It also didn't hurt that kvs made no adjustments that White hadn't seen before. 
I stand by my statement that Calvin was the better team, and all they needed was the kind of coaching and preparation that the Adrian players received.  I would take the Calvin players top to bottom over the Adrian players every day of the week.  They have much greater untapped potential waiting to be coached than any team in the MIAA right now.

FWIW, Calvin dropped back in to a 2-3 zone on D for 5 or so minutes in the second half.

Also FWIW, I have never seen Rietema get pushed off the ball the way he did on Saturday, leading to more than a few Adrian fast breaks.

[oldknight]

One of the great conundrums of my life is when to accept the advise contained in the wisdom literature at Proverbs 26:4 or go with that mentioned in the following verse. I've gone with the former long enough. Here are my thoughts.

Adrian is very well-coached. Adrian is also better than Calvin right now as evidenced by yesterday's game. I recognize that statement is one of opinion and other intelligent observers may disagree. But if you never actually attend the games, you're not much of an observer and it's pretty hard to take your opinion seriously--especially when you repeat prior posts ad nauseum without any new and helpful information. As the late Senator Daniel Moynihan once famously observed, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. New and helpful information was provided by knights2000 who correctly observed that Calvin dropped back into a zone at one point.

As is always the case in close games at any level of basketball, the loss to Adrian was made up of a few small things. Just one example will suffice. In Calvin's second to last possession and trailing 58-57, Rietema penetrated into the lane about ten feet in front of the basket, wasn't double-teamed and, instead of shooting it, he passed to Snikkers. It was a classic case of over passing because Tom was too far under the board, there was only about 5 seconds on the shot clock and Tom was forced to take an off balance, highly contested fade away that never drew iron resulting in a shot clock violation. On Adrian's following possession, Delano Collins ran the shot clock down, penetrated, didn't pass the ball and scored to put the Bulldogs up three. It hurt that none of Calvin's big men helped out late in the shot clock when everyone knew Collins had to shoot. I really don't need anyone to claim this is a failure of coaching. The players decided yesterday's game on the floor and a talented Adrian squad just made a few more plays than did Calvin.

[wiz]

And with my lips sealed tight, I quietly refer to the realistic verse of Proverbs 17:28.

[GoKnights68]

Hope and Calvin fans had better just get used to the idea that the league they've dominated for most of the last 50 years no longer exists.  Brooks Miller and Mark White are fine coaches and they are both going to make their respective programs very competitive.   

Right now Adrian is just a better team than Calvin.

I agree that the league may become more competitive in the future but even with a 4 team tournament there is no reason Hope or Calvin should ever struggle to be one of the 4 tournament teams. Hope and Calvin are like Duke and NC in the ACC. Even in their down years they should always make the MIAA tournament. An Adrian or Olivet or Kzoo may rise up and have a great year now and then but they will never have the consistency Hope or Calvin has had.

I don't blame Calvin fans for being upset and frustrated with the last 4 years.

Thank you.  It gets quite old when a few particuler Hope fans here love defending KVS but then go on to brag (rightfully so) about their success over Calvin over that span.  The two themes contradict imo.

[northb]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

[Stinger]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I understand this is a Hope and Calvin dominated board but can you all please leave the "scripture" stuff off of it? If I wanted to read fiction, I'd pick the latest Clancy novel. Keep it in your church.

[HopeConvert]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I understand this is a Hope and Calvin dominated board but can you all please leave the "scripture" stuff off of it? If I wanted to read fiction, I'd pick the latest Clancy novel. Keep it in your church.

So if I understand you correctly, you are allowed to bring into the conversation any sort of reference you like and to submit it with impunity.. But according to your open-minded notions of tolerance, we are not allowed to use shared cultural markers to inform our judgments, nor make reference to them in any fashion. Indeed, we are required by you to partition things we believe not easily partitionable, but you are under no such obligation.

Is all "literature" off the table? Just for the record, what sources are we allowed to quote?

[oldknight]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I understand this is a Hope and Calvin dominated board but can you all please leave the "scripture" stuff off of it? If I wanted to read fiction, I'd pick the latest Clancy novel. Keep it in your church.

So if I understand you correctly, you are allowed to bring into the conversation any sort of reference you like and to submit it with impunity.. But according to your open-minded notions of tolerance, we are not allowed to use shared cultural markers to inform our judgments, nor make reference to them in any fashion. Indeed, we are required by you to partition things we believe not easily partitionable, but you are under no such obligation.

Is all "literature" off the table? Just for the record, what sources are we allowed to quote?

The Hunt for Red October. 

Or maybe Red Rabbit.

[goodknight]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I understand this is a Hope and Calvin dominated board but can you all please leave the "scripture" stuff off of it? If I wanted to read fiction, I'd pick the latest Clancy novel. Keep it in your church.

So if I understand you correctly, you are allowed to bring into the conversation any sort of reference you like and to submit it with impunity.. But according to your open-minded notions of tolerance, we are not allowed to use shared cultural markers to inform our judgments, nor make reference to them in any fashion. Indeed, we are required by you to partition things we believe not easily partitionable, but you are under no such obligation.

Is all "literature" off the table? Just for the record, what sources are we allowed to quote?

The Hunt for Red October. 

Or maybe Red Rabbit.

I'll submit for consideration a couple of (Calvin grad) Peter DeVries novels:

Slouching Towards Kalamazoo

and (with Stinger's needle in mind)

The Prick of Noon.

[oldknight]

Just to keep everyone up to speed:

Proverbs 17:28 Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue.

Proverbs 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

Proverbs 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.

I understand this is a Hope and Calvin dominated board but can you all please leave the "scripture" stuff off of it? If I wanted to read fiction, I'd pick the latest Clancy novel. Keep it in your church.

So if I understand you correctly, you are allowed to bring into the conversation any sort of reference you like and to submit it with impunity.. But according to your open-minded notions of tolerance, we are not allowed to use shared cultural markers to inform our judgments, nor make reference to them in any fashion. Indeed, we are required by you to partition things we believe not easily partitionable, but you are under no such obligation.

Is all "literature" off the table? Just for the record, what sources are we allowed to quote?

The Hunt for Red October. 

Or maybe Red Rabbit.

I'll submit for consideration a couple of (Calvin grad) Peter DeVries novels:

Slouching Towards Kalamazoo

and (with Stinger's needle in mind)

The Prick of Noon.

Knowing HC as I do, he might prefer to be authorized to use Peter Kreeft's recent novel An Ocean Full of Angels.