MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[almcguirejr]

what happens if Adrian, Calvin, Albion and Trine all finish 8-6.

Then Hope is eliminated and the rest of the teams make the tournament.

...kidding

#2 Adrian
#3 coin flip between Albion / Trine

#4 play in game: Calvin @ loser of the coin flip.

KS, explain to me how you came to that conclusion.  On the MIAA web site, in the section on tiebreakers used to determine seeding, there is item #3:

3. In a case of a tie involving more than two teams, compare each team's records head-to-head against the other teams in the tie, with the team with the worst record dropping out. Then go back to the two-team tiebreaker above.

If Adrian, Trine, Calvin, and Albion all finish at 8-6, don't you invoke this rule?  Their results against each other are as follows:

Adrian 4-2
Albion 3-3
Trine 3-3
Calvin 2-4

Isn't Calvin eliminated?  Why would Calvin get to play in a play-in game?  I think Calvin might need a win and an Albion loss to get in the tournament.

This statement is correct according to a MIAA spokesman.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1134096009/Hope-College-mens-basketball-may-wait-until-Monday-to-learn-first-MIAA-Tournament-foe

[Flash1996]

In response to the many posts about enrollment and successful sports programs.  I don't think it has much to do with the basic undergrad or graduate population.  Take for example, Emory University in Atlanta, GA has a population of 13,000+, but they aren't a dynastic powerhouse when it comes to Division III sports.  I'm unsure of their athletic expenditures though.  Taking a quick look at the Top 25, one would find that many colleges aren't the size of Emory or Washington U, although both are ranked.  Sorry if my logic seems convoluted in my post, its been a long day!

[calvin_grad]

This statement is correct according to a MIAA spokesman.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1134096009/Hope-College-mens-basketball-may-wait-until-Monday-to-learn-first-MIAA-Tournament-foe

I think I understand (and this is based on the Holland Sentinel article).  Calvin is in the tournament with a win and an Albion loss.

Or is in the play-in game with a loss and an Albion loss.

If Calvin and Albion both win, that means that Calvin, Adrian, and Albion all finish 8-6 and Calvin would be the odd team out based on being 0-2 against Adrian.

Yep. I think Calvin struggles to even make the MIAA tournament.

I was hoping I wasn't prophetic back in January. 

[almcguirejr]

This statement is correct according to a MIAA spokesman.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/sports/x1134096009/Hope-College-mens-basketball-may-wait-until-Monday-to-learn-first-MIAA-Tournament-foe

I think I understand (and this is based on the Holland Sentinel article).  Calvin is in the tournament with a win and an Albion loss.

Or is in the play-in game with a loss and an Albion loss.

If Calvin and Albion both win, that means that Calvin, Adrian, and Albion all finish 8-6 and Calvin would be the odd team out based on being 0-2 against Adrian.

Yep. I think Calvin struggles to even make the MIAA tournament.

I was hoping I wasn't prophetic back in January. 

Go Bulldogs!!

[sac]

If Calvin and Albion both win, that means that Calvin, Adrian, and Albion all finish 8-6 and Calvin would be the odd team out based on being 0-2 against Adrian.

I believe this is only contingent on Trine beating Hope.  I've asked if Hope would consider losing if it meant no Calvin in the tournament.  Sounds like a no go.  But.........

[AlwaysHope]

If Calvin and Albion both win, that means that Calvin, Adrian, and Albion all finish 8-6 and Calvin would be the odd team out based on being 0-2 against Adrian.

I believe this is only contingent on Trine beating Hope.  I've asked if Hope would consider losing if it meant no Calvin in the tournament.  Sounds like a no go.  But.........

Which in turn means that we should expect a large contingent of fans from Calvin rooting for the Flying Dutchmen on Sat. night.

[Hopester]

I believe this is only contingent on Trine beating Hope. 

Why is this true? Either way if Albion wins its a three way tie or more. Calvin drops out of the pack.

[AlwaysHope]

Incredible 9 full page article about Wes Leonard in this week's SI:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1194912/index.htm

The magazine has a total of 8 photos, including 4 small photos that were taken at the DeVos, plus brief mention about Hope College and Wes' coach, former Hope player Ryan Klingler.  Wes is featured in a full page photo, showing him making the winning shot.  The photos are not available on the internet article

According to the article, Wes was 6'2", 230 pounds and could easily dunk the ball.

I couldn't read the article without a lump in my throat.

[calvin_grad]

I believe this is only contingent on Trine beating Hope. 

Why is this true? Either way if Albion wins its a three way tie or more. Calvin drops out of the pack.

Agree Hopester.  It makes no difference what Trine does versus Hope.  Albion beating Adrian pulls Adrian into whatever the size group is at 8-6.  Calvin would be the odd team out of that group because they were 0-2 versus Adrian.  Doesn't matter if Trine is a part of that group or not.

[sac]

I have conflicting versions of how the tie-breaker is going to work so I think I'll just wait until Saturday.  This whole situation is odd.
-------------------------------------

I meant to post this earlier today but was diverted....

We had 4 double-doubles in the league Wednesday night, one in each game.

Kolin Kazen, Albion 18 points, 14 rebounds
Adam Meier, Adrian 18 points, 14 rebounds
Peter Bunn, Hope  11 points, 14 rebounds
Scott Rogers, Trine 15 points, 11 rebounds

3 other guys just missed it

Joe Prepolec, Kzoo  11 points, 9 rebounds
Alvino Ashley, Olivet 9 points, 10 rebounds
Tom Snikkers, Calvin 11 points, 9 rebounds

26 double-doubles in league play this year, last year there were 33

[hope52]

go

alibion

[devossed]

I have conflicting versions of how the tie-breaker is going to work so I think I'll just wait until Saturday.  This whole situation is odd.
-------------------------------------

I meant to post this earlier today but was diverted....

We had 4 double-doubles in the league Wednesday night, one in each game.

Kolin Kazen, Albion 18 points, 14 rebounds
Adam Meier, Adrian 18 points, 14 rebounds
Peter Bunn, Hope  11 points, 14 rebounds
Scott Rogers, Trine 15 points, 11 rebounds

3 other guys just missed it

Joe Prepolec, Kzoo  11 points, 9 rebounds
Alvino Ashley, Olivet 9 points, 10 rebounds
Tom Snikkers, Calvin 11 points, 9 rebounds

26 double-doubles in league play this year, last year there were 33

For the 'almost' don't forget snuggerud 13-9 and (more impressively) krombeen 16-9

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I have conflicting versions of how the tie-breaker is going to work so I think I'll just wait until Saturday.  This whole situation is odd.
-------------------------------------

I meant to post this earlier today but was diverted....

We had 4 double-doubles in the league Wednesday night, one in each game.

Kolin Kazen, Albion 18 points, 14 rebounds
Adam Meier, Adrian 18 points, 14 rebounds
Peter Bunn, Hope  11 points, 14 rebounds
Scott Rogers, Trine 15 points, 11 rebounds

3 other guys just missed it

Joe Prepolec, Kzoo  11 points, 9 rebounds
Alvino Ashley, Olivet 9 points, 10 rebounds
Tom Snikkers, Calvin 11 points, 9 rebounds

26 double-doubles in league play this year, last year there were 33

For the 'almost' don't forget snuggerud 13-9 and (more impressively) krombeen 16-9

3rd time this year Krom missed a double-double by one.  Twice now he has ended with 9 rebounds (20 & 9 against Adrian 1/7 as well as the 16 & 9 at Olivet).  He also had 20 & 9 assists in the last rivalry game.

David is now 2 rebounds away from 400 for his career.  Pretty impressive for a point guard.

[sac]

I have conflicting versions of how the tie-breaker is going to work so I think I'll just wait until Saturday.  This whole situation is odd.
-------------------------------------

I meant to post this earlier today but was diverted....

We had 4 double-doubles in the league Wednesday night, one in each game.

Kolin Kazen, Albion 18 points, 14 rebounds
Adam Meier, Adrian 18 points, 14 rebounds
Peter Bunn, Hope  11 points, 14 rebounds
Scott Rogers, Trine 15 points, 11 rebounds

3 other guys just missed it

Joe Prepolec, Kzoo  11 points, 9 rebounds
Alvino Ashley, Olivet 9 points, 10 rebounds
Tom Snikkers, Calvin 11 points, 9 rebounds

26 double-doubles in league play this year, last year there were 33

For the 'almost' don't forget snuggerud 13-9 and (more impressively) krombeen 16-9

3rd time this year Krom missed a double-double by one.  Twice now he has ended with 9 rebounds (20 & 9 against Adrian 1/7 as well as the 16 & 9 at Olivet).  He also had 20 & 9 assists in the last rivalry game.

David is now 2 rebounds away from 400 for his career.  Pretty impressive for a point guard.

He's been kind of a shooting guard, point guard, forward.  Maybe Shoo-poi-ward  or Poi-shoo-ward

[sac]

I've been able to catch 11 of Hope's 13 MIAA games and 3 or 4 non-conference games.  For my money I think Hope's most complete performance came at Trine.

http://miaa.org/mbb/stats/1112/0125trho.htm


There are several things of note that Hope was able to do in this game that probably won't happen Saturday night.

1)  Ian Jackson--  4 points, 1-3 shooting.  Hope's attention to Jackson was pretty remarkable to watch and hear.  Not only were the players on the floor focused on knowing where Jackson was but Hope's bench players and coaches, really made sure those on the floor knew were Jackson was at all times.   Trine will certainly make a better effort to get him more opportunities.

2)  Tim Pearcy--  5 points, 0-9 shooting.   Pearcy had a lot of trouble with Hope's big men, if I recall correctly most of his misses were over NVA, Snuggerud or Holwerda.  It was a tough day, but there was a big reason(or 3 big reasons) why it was a tough day.  The odds of Pearcy going 0-9 again are probably pretty small, whether its a result of Trine doing something differently remains to be seen.

3)  Nate Snuggerud--  28 points, 10-15 shooting, 10 rebounds.   I don't think Trine was prepared for Snuggerud's size and ability to move near the basket or on the fast break.  It's a tough match for them anyway but this was a monster game by Nate that will be very hard to duplicate. 

4)  Chris Kent/Scott Rogers -- I'm pretty sure these two combined for 31 of Trine's 36 second half points.  Will Hope pay more attention to these two?  Probably.   It will also depend on what kind of game Jackson is having.  But the second half Trine might have found a few things that worked well for them, they'll certainly try to do them more often this time.


Lastly, I think there's an emotional element that's different this time.  In Angola, Trine was just coming off a big loss at Calvin and probably pretty unsure of themselves.  Brooks Miller did not look very happy with his teams performance the whole game.  Those two games were probably a tough lesson and pills to swallow, they were easily Trine's worst defensive performances of the conference season.   This time Trine has a lot more to play for and is also coming off back-to-back solid defensive games.  Included in that is their 73-54 win over Calvin, that has to be a huge lift for them.   So this Trine team should be much more confident this time.

The late start is going to mean Trine will know exactly what this game means for them in the standings.  Should Albion beat Adrian, the Thunder might find a little extra spark knowing they can finish in 2nd place.  Hope has some things to play for as well.......Senior Day, going for 14-0 in the MIAA, Regional/National rankings/seedings.  There's the potential both teams are pretty into this one.

A 23 point loss is tough to turn around, but Trine just did a 27 point turnaround on Wednesday with Calvin.  I thought Hope had to play a really good game to get their 23 point win at Trine, a result they might be hard pressed to duplicate.


Seems like a lot for a game that probably seems pretty meaningless to most.