MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

Ziggy,
I agree with you, but if we did send a broadcasting crew they would give the Hope players a little more credit.  Adrian wasn't some team that pulled off 3 upsets to get to this game.  They are a legitimate team who deserved to be in this game.

I don't mean to sound arrogant myself, but everything you said after "I agree with you" is irrelevant to my point. I don't care if the hypothetical Adrian broadcast crew were the biggest homers on earth.

[Stinger]

I'll bet if you were the decision maker at Hope, with a 3500 capacity gym and the best home-court advantage/atmosphere in the conference you'd think twice about making it very easy for people not to come.

Seriously? I know the stereotypical Dutch frugal mentality but this isnt the  NFL with a need to "blackout". 

Sounds like it was a fantastic game. Probably the sort of game Hope needed to get them ready for a run. 

For Hope fans: is this team as good as the ones that have made runs in the past?

[almcguirejr]

Mr. Ypsi, your IWU, pool C, discussion belongs on a different board.  Time and place.

[AndersDY]

Now that Hope has completed what effectively amounts to an undefeated season, lets just cross our fingers that we don't start with an opponent out of the OAC. 

As to if this team compares to the other Salem-bound teams, it is hard to compare over time, but it feels to be a step behind those groups as I picture it. The difference in appearance might be as simple as the difference between Bunn being a role player and Bunn going back to the force he is capable of being though. With Seiler as a starter and a primarily defensive player, it seems that to compare to those other teams, the other four spots would need to all be serious scoring threats who could go off for 20, which isn't the case if Bunn is also relegated to a supporting role. I also recall previous teams' depth allowing them to bring in an entire second-line substitution of 5 with only minimal drop-off. At this point, even with NVA back, I don't think we quite go 2 deep at all positions, but Ray being out is part of that. On the other hand, I doubt I could go back through the prior 3 Final Four teams and find a back-up point guard as good as Colton though, so who knows.

[dutchwatcher]

Great game today!  Both teams were outstanding on defense and with very few open looks for either team.  Hope seemed a little flat in the first half but picked things up in the second half and overtime to pull out the win.  Adrian would give a lot of teams in the NCAA trouble and it's unfortunate they won't get the chance.

This was a great test for Hope in the upcoming tournament.  I find it hard to believe there will be many better defensive clubs than the Bulldogs. They are probably one or two players short of being a great team and could have easily pulled out a victory today with a little better guard play at the end.  Congrats to both teams on a great tournament.

[section7]

On a side note- Tough listening to the arrogant Hope announcers though.

AG55, as a Hope graduate and fan, I cannot agree with you more.  The local radio station's announcers are.........well..............horrendous.

I have tried for the past 3 years to get them to make a change with some......well.........input.

However, they continue to give us these two. 

I will not even listen when I cannot attend, I either watch live stats on computer or my phone.

Even though it does probably mean much, I apologize, because they are an embarrassment.

[section7]

Wow, what a ball game today.

First of all, my congratulations and admiration goes out to Coach White and his team from Adrian.  Despite not getting the outcome they had desired, they have nothing to hang their heads about.  They played with passion, desire and to their gameplan about as well as possible.  This team works so hard and Coach White puts them in position to get the most out of their abilities.  I am extremely impressed.

This Adrian team reminds me of the Pistons in the 80's, when they could not quite get over the hump with the Celtics and then a few years later with the Bulls getting over the hump with the Pistons, once they did, wow, look out they never looked back.  I feel this is where Adrian is today, once they crest the hill (and they almost did today), look out they may not look back.

I know there is some first round opponent who should thank Hope for that team not having to play Adrian in the 1st round of the tourney

[section7]

Random Thoughts about today's Adrian vs Hope game:

1.  NVA - I think today we saw the difference he makes for this team.  Especially DK and NS.  Just his presence in the game makes a huge difference on both ends.  This is to take nothing away from DK or NS, but life is a whole lot easier with the big man in there.

2.  NVA - even though Adrian's D did have alot to do with this, not having NVA in the rotation, really make Hope's offense look lost at times and out of synch.

3,  NVA - this may be wrong of me (I don't know the details of the health situation), but no way I can show up and sit on the bench of the MIAA Championship game, throw the ball around during warm ups and not PLAY in the game.  My guess is he may have not been medically cleared to play, but these opportunities don't come along very often.

4.  Game - playing a 45-minute, close all the way game, could do Hope alot of benefit come the next 3 weeks.  Plus the physical style is what is likely to be the type of games in the next few weeks.

5.  FT (despite a few comments already made here) - I was thrilled with Hope's FT shooting today 17-21 for the 1st 40 minutes, wins alot of games and was a major improvement from the last 3 games.

6.  Logan Neil - looks like LN hates to see seasons end - he was outstanding during the soccer team's tourney run this fall and he has played his best 2 games of the year this week.  If he plays like that for 3 more weeks.  Well..................

7.  Richard Pack - that was one whale of a 2nd half young man.

8.  Rebounds - Hope wins the battle narrowly today, but big improvement over the past 2 meetings with Adrian and they tie with 12 offensive rebounds each, last meeting Adrian had 28.

9.  Wallace Whitfield - I have to do it, I know it will be viewed negatively on this board, but he was horrendous today.  Near the end of OT, he visibly appeared genuinely disappointed that Hope won.  His inconsistency on the 2 ends of the floor was evident.  Please Adrian do not view this as taking anything away from the Bulldogs effort or performance.  Just my opinion of one official's performance today.

10  Coach Mark White - wow is he impressive and what he gets his team to do and gets out of them.  I would love to have a son play for a coach like that.

[formerd3db]

section7:
Good overall assessment.  I will just add again, however, that while 17 of 21 free throws is great as you mention, making the ones at the end of the game is what is going to make or break Hope (or any team) especially in the NCAA tournament when everything is on the line.  If Hope does not do that, they will bow out early, IMO. 

As far as stinger's question regarding comparisons, I agree with AndersDY that it is very difficult to compare teams in past years/eras; the talent pool and how it is spread around the various colleges and regions varies over the years.  I also agree that while this year's Hope team is very good (and, of course, this is just my own personal opinion), I just don't have the feeling that they are as good as Hope's teams in recent years that went the distance in the tourney, including the national runner up years (which I think those teams were better than the Hope team that most recently was in the Final Four), which we all know was more than a decade ago.  In relation to all this, (and others around the boards have mentioned this as well), while there are some good teams in DIII this year, overall, no one seems to be "that dominant" team like has happened in some years.  Again, it is difficult to compare teams in the various regions with regard to the level of talent and the SOS.  Many people have discussed and pointed out their opinions that go back to the premise that MIAA teams, including Hope, need to play more upper tier teams in the pre-season and with perhaps the exception of the one or two scholarship schools that Hope plays early in the season, in order to help them when the NCAA tourney time arrives - many of us have been saying that about football for a long time .  Also, as a somewhat tangential but related aspect of that philosophy, I, again, I think the Western Michigan game was a good experience for Hope and I have no problem with them having a game like that on their schedule each year if a DI school will play them in a "real" i.e. not exhibition game.

Anyway, all of you who have followed Hope's basketball team closely (and much more closely than I have this year - you know, I'm a football guy ) have provided some great insights here now that today's league tourney is done.  Obviously, being a former Hope s-a grad, I'm pulling for them to go all the way in the Final Four.  They probably have as good a chance as anyone this year, however, history tells us and we all know that it is an "entirely different atmosphere and ball game" when you get to the NCAA "Madness".  That said, we'll be cheering our Hope guys on and here's hoping that everyone of the players will "step up" and play their "A" games.  They have to.  Thanks for everyone's comments/opinions here - it has been interesting as always.

[NW Hope Fan]

A healthy Dave Meulenberg changes a couple of those mid/late 90's teams... Maybe even wins a National Championship.

[wiz]

I have only seen Hope six or seven times this year but my opinion is that this very talented team isn't quite up to par with some of their previous teams.  With that said, however, they are better coached and with what should be a healthy dose of home-court advantage, these last two factors could be the deal maker.

[pointlem]

My 2 cents on today:

• Adrian coach.  I concur with Section7 about his effective coaching, and would add that I'm also impressed with his apparent character . . . no foot stomping anger at his players, no whining to the refs, and generous, warm-spirited hugs of congratulations to the Hope players and coaches moments after a really tough loss.  Adrian posters (glad to have you here, btw), he does you proud.  And with virtually your whole team returning next year, the future looks bright for Adrian BB.
• NVA.  Whether he scores much or not, he is a major part of Hope's success.  First, his presence alters shots, the way Carissa Verkaik did this evening--not just with her 9 blocks, but also all the forced efforts to shoot over her, which was a big factor in the Hope women shooting 22 percent (and 1 of their first 24).  Verkaik, btw, is a great model of how to defend and block without fouling.  Second, his presence in the middle of that zone provides a hub to the offense.  He's provides easy target to put the ball to in the center of that zone, and he sees and distributes well.
• Logan.  His recapturing his last year's shooting was a difference maker today, and perhaps bodes well for the games to come.  Regardless, what fun for him . . . and his Dad . . . to have made decisive contributions in these last two games.
• DeVos.  The electric atmosphere today was enhanced by the DeVos choreography . . . the beat of the music, with the great bass in the sound system, energizes the crowd before the start of each half, and during those late game timeouts.  It had a rock concert feel today.  Kudos to whomever is responsible--they're doing a great job of selecting and timing the audio atmosphere.  If there were recruits in the fieldhouse today, how could they not have been drawn into the experience.

section7:
While 17 of 21 free throws is great as you mention, making the ones at the end of the game is what is going to make or break Hope (or any team) especially in the NCAA tournament when everything is on the line.  If Hope does not do that, they will bow out early, IMO.

Good comments, formerd3db.  But don't free throws count the same whenever?  If Hope had missed its first six and then hit 17 in a row the score would have ended the same.  If they'd made the first 17, they would have had a cushion at the end allowing them to miss the last six with the same result.  Points scored at the game's end seem to affect the outcome more (hence coaches bench players with 2 fouls in the first half to have them available at the game's end, rather than maximizing the player's minutes and game production).  I know, I know . . . if the game is close at the end, then those free throws matter.  But it's the earlier free throws and shooting that help determine whether it's close.  Every point counts the same, and contributes equally to the outcome, no matter when scored.

[wwjjdd]

9.  Wallace Whitfield - I have to do it, I know it will be viewed negatively on this board, but he was horrendous today.  Near the end of OT, he visibly appeared genuinely disappointed that Hope won.  His inconsistency on the 2 ends of the floor was evident.  Please Adrian do not view this as taking anything away from the Bulldogs effort or performance.  Just my opinion of one official's performance today.

10  Coach Mark White - wow is he impressive and what he gets his team to do and gets out of them.  I would love to have a son play for a coach like that.

"Amen" to point 9......The officiating today boggled the mine. 

And "Amen" to point 10.  I have a feeling that Adrian will be the force to reckon with next year, and maybe every year that Coach White is at the helm.  Kudos all round.

In any event, GO HOPE!

[wwjjdd]

• DeVos.  The electric atmosphere today was enhanced by the DeVos choreography . . . the beat of the music, with the great bass in the sound system, energizes the crowd before the start of each half, and during those late game timeouts.  It had a rock concert feel today.  Kudos to whomever is responsible--they're doing a great job of selecting and timing the audio atmosphere.  If there were recruits in the fieldhouse today, how could they not have been drawn into the experience.

Agreed.  I am particularly pleased with the fact that the Dew Crew and the cheerleaders are finally working together.  The "bom, bom, bom" and the "so good" during the playing of "Sweet Caroline" brings a glowing warmth to my otherwise black heart.   

[HopeConvert]

At this point I'm not going to say much about the heart-stopping nail-biting game. And I'm not typically inclined to disagree with my friend pointlem. Nonetheless.

First, the Powers that be at Hope ought to do something about the loud obnoxious and intrusive "music." it drains energy from the audience, takes the crowd out off the game, is oddly paternalistic, and damages our hearing. There is nothing good that canbe said about it. I noticed time after time that the crowd was going crazy going into a timeout and then shut down when that bloodying noise started up and drowned out our cheers. We don't need you and your trendy pop culture hiphop high volume idiotic drivel. Keep the game pure. Let the crowd be. Turn off that. Lasted and blasting garbage. It offends my senses as well as my sense of purity.

Second. The allure of sports is in part to see how persons respond under pressure. While at one level all points are equal, at another level it is a test of how well you can do when the game is on the line. Colton's first free throw was clearly a matter of the pressure getting to him.

Logan Neil was money today.