MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Stinger]

Still stinging from this past weekend.  If you would have told me a Hope player would score 40 pts, I would have been quite certain they would win.  In looking at the bracket, it seems likely Hope would have hosted again this weekend with a decent shot of reaching the Final Four.  All of that is speculation at this point unfortunately.  It doesn't take away from a great year Hope had and really shows how slim the margin of error is when you get to the tournament. 

With the group Hope has coming back, I feel pretty good about next year.  It'll be the first time in a while where guard play is the question mark and the interior is not.  Overway should prove to be a solid starting PG but beyond that I have a lot of uncertainty with the backcourt.  I think this is a key recruiting year for Hope -- undefeated in conference, #1 ranking, #1 in attendance, some key open roster spots - and it will hopefully add up to a solid class.  Thus far, Neil has been playing with GVW's recruits for the most part so it'll be important for MN to restock.

Whose recruit would you say NVA was?  I would assume that GVW made the initial run at him, but by the time he had decided to leave Central, (I would assume) Matt Neil was Hope's coach.  Is he Neil's recruit?  GVW's? I have no idea.

Neil just carrying on the GVW tradition,no?  "pss...NVA? Not happy at Central? We've got a spot for you in Holland, big fella."

[oldknight]

3 -- Faculty Senate: "no"

Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've heard an overwhelming majority of faculty has been against the football idea from the start of the feasibility study.

Calvin's Faculty Senate voting "no" on football is one of the least drama filled votes in human history, the equivalant of wondering whether San Francisco will send a Democrat or Ottawa County a Republican to Congress.

[bballfan13]

3 -- Faculty Senate: "no"

Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've heard an overwhelming majority of faculty has been against the football idea from the start of the feasibility study.

Calvin's Faculty Senate voting "no" on football is one of the least drama filled votes in human history, the equivalant of wondering whether San Francisco will send a Democrat or Ottawa County a Republican to Congress.

Correct.  It was known long ago that they would vote this way.  The real vote comes in May as KS said.

[hoopdreams]

For those intimately aware of AAU...if your son or sons play for a club, as a parent, at a minimum you're going to practices even if its just to pick your kid up from the gym.  Most parents, ESPECIALLY parents who enjoy basketball (I would put MN in this group), shut their lives down most Fridays through Sundays to follow their star around the state, midwest, or country.

An assistant college coach would not be able to NOT "recruit" under these situations, whether it was kids off your own club, opponents your kids were playing, and most importantly their parents.  If you know Coach Neil at all, can you imagine his ability to freely talk "smooth talk" over a 3 day period? Overtly or not?

I believe Krombeen, Snuggs and Logan played on the same AAU club??? WM Lakers?

I wouldn't take any stock on WO coaches and their take on MN because they had more than their share of differences= it was not pretty at times.  This is no secret amongst the hs coaching circle,  which seems odd because WO's staff is essentially  former Hope players.

FDf- I was going to respond that there had to have been some interaction between Mr. H and Coach Neilback in the day......recruiting trips, Hastings going to Hope Team camps, etc.... thanks for adding that.

[hope_hoops1]

My initial comment on the MN vs. GVW recruiting was not to slight Neil's recruiting involvement during the GVW era.  Obviously Neil's presence at high school games and AAU tournaments was apparent while he was an assistant coach.  However, recruiting as the head coach is different than recruiting as an assistant.  I just think that if Hope is planning on staying as a perennial top-25 team, it's imperative that Neil gets a solid recruiting class.  I'm not saying he will, that he won't, that he can, that he can't, etc., just that he needs to.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

With the season sadly and abruptly over, I thought I'd share some stats about what this year's senior class accomplished during their 4 years at Hope, both as a team and as individuals (all-time ranking for single season and career records).

Team

	Won	Lost	%
Overall record	92	25	0.786
Home	52	10	0.839
Away	31	10	0.756
Neutral	9	5	0.643
MIAA play	48	8	0.857
Rivalry	9	4	0.692
MIAA Tournament	11	0	1.000
NCAA Tournament	2	4	0.333

David Krombeen

Category	Season	Career
Games Played		3rd	117
Minutes		5th	3260
Min / game	7th		30.0 (11-12)
Def Reb		9th	346
Assists	4th	2nd	149 (10-11), 463
Steals	3rd	2nd	94 (10-11), 241

Logan Neil

Category	Season	Career
FT%	1st	1st	.892 (10-11), .870

Peter Bunn

Category	Season	Career
Minutes	3rd		925 (09-10)
Min / game	3rd		31.9 (09-10)
3FG %		3rd	0.439
FT Made	10th		127 (09-10)
FT %	3rd	3rd	.876 (09-10), .844

[realist]

3 -- Faculty Senate: "no"

Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've heard an overwhelming majority of faculty has been against the football idea from the start of the feasibility study.

Calvin's Faculty Senate voting "no" on football is one of the least drama filled votes in human history, the equivalant of wondering whether San Francisco will send a Democrat or Ottawa County a Republican to Congress.

Correct.  It was known long ago that they would vote this way.  The real vote comes in May as KS said.

So the real question now becomes:  If you are a member of the board of trustees are you going to vote in favor of football over the objections of the faculty senate?   Doesn't seem like a winning hand for the trustees.  With a new Pres. coming on board, and a recent history of a "less than happy faculty" who needs the grief of further alienating a significant campus public.
Smart money would say table it for a couple years and revisit in 2014 or 2015. 

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think any faculty senate anywhere has been in favor of football, but dozens of schools have added it anyway.

[GoKnights68]

3 -- Faculty Senate: "no"

Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've heard an overwhelming majority of faculty has been against the football idea from the start of the feasibility study.

I don't even think the faculty liked it when Calvin added lacross as a varsity sport.

[NW Hope Fan]

Still stinging from this past weekend.  If you would have told me a Hope player would score 40 pts, I would have been quite certain they would win.  In looking at the bracket, it seems likely Hope would have hosted again this weekend with a decent shot of reaching the Final Four.  All of that is speculation at this point unfortunately.  It doesn't take away from a great year Hope had and really shows how slim the margin of error is when you get to the tournament. 

With the group Hope has coming back, I feel pretty good about next year.  It'll be the first time in a while where guard play is the question mark and the interior is not.  Overway should prove to be a solid starting PG but beyond that I have a lot of uncertainty with the backcourt.  I think this is a key recruiting year for Hope -- undefeated in conference, #1 ranking, #1 in attendance, some key open roster spots - and it will hopefully add up to a solid class.  Thus far, Neil has been playing with GVW's recruits for the most part so it'll be important for MN to restock.

Whose recruit would you say NVA was?  I would assume that GVW made the initial run at him, but by the time he had decided to leave Central, (I would assume) Matt Neil was Hope's coach.  Is he Neil's recruit?  GVW's? I have no idea.

Neil just carrying on the GVW tradition,no?  "pss...NVA? Not happy at Central? We've got a spot for you in Holland, big fella."

And there is something wrong with that? pss... stinger? Do you think they recruited him before he went to Central?

[bballfan13]

Still stinging from this past weekend.  If you would have told me a Hope player would score 40 pts, I would have been quite certain they would win.  In looking at the bracket, it seems likely Hope would have hosted again this weekend with a decent shot of reaching the Final Four.  All of that is speculation at this point unfortunately.  It doesn't take away from a great year Hope had and really shows how slim the margin of error is when you get to the tournament. 

With the group Hope has coming back, I feel pretty good about next year.  It'll be the first time in a while where guard play is the question mark and the interior is not.  Overway should prove to be a solid starting PG but beyond that I have a lot of uncertainty with the backcourt.  I think this is a key recruiting year for Hope -- undefeated in conference, #1 ranking, #1 in attendance, some key open roster spots - and it will hopefully add up to a solid class.  Thus far, Neil has been playing with GVW's recruits for the most part so it'll be important for MN to restock.

Whose recruit would you say NVA was?  I would assume that GVW made the initial run at him, but by the time he had decided to leave Central, (I would assume) Matt Neil was Hope's coach.  Is he Neil's recruit?  GVW's? I have no idea.

Neil just carrying on the GVW tradition,no?  "pss...NVA? Not happy at Central? We've got a spot for you in Holland, big fella."

And there is something wrong with that? pss... stinger? Do you think they recruited him before he went to Central?

Not saying that what Stinger said is true.  But in the given context if it did happen this way then it is illegal.  You can't recruit players while they are enrolled at other schools.

[sac]

It has to be something sinister.......always.

[sac]

With the season sadly and abruptly over, I thought I'd share some stats about what this year's senior class accomplished during their 4 years at Hope, both as a team and as individuals (all-time ranking for single season and career records).

Team

	Won	Lost	%
Overall record	92	25	0.786
Home	52	10	0.839
Away	31	10	0.756
Neutral	9	5	0.643
MIAA play	48	8	0.857
Rivalry	9	4	0.692
MIAA Tournament	11	0	1.000
NCAA Tournament	2	4	0.333

David Krombeen

Category	Season	Career
Games Played		3rd	117
Minutes		5th	3260
Min / game	7th		30.0 (11-12)
Def Reb		9th	346
Assists	4th	2nd	149 (10-11), 463
Steals	3rd	2nd	94 (10-11), 241

Logan Neil

Category	Season	Career
FT%	1st	1st	.892 (10-11), .870

Peter Bunn

Category	Season	Career
Minutes	3rd		925 (09-10)
Min / game	3rd		31.9 (09-10)
3FG %		3rd	0.439
FT Made	10th		127 (09-10)
FT %	3rd	3rd	.876 (09-10), .844

excellent info

[sac]

Saturday night I was asked if anyone at Hope had ever scored 77 points in back-to-back games.

Dan Shinabarger probably did........

In 1970 Shinabarger scored 51 and 37 against Albion that year.  He also scored 38 against UW-Parkside.  The UWP game was the next game after the 2nd Albion game that year, however the Hope archives aren't clear on which game Dan scored which points.  So Dan either score 89 or 75 in consecutive games.

These guys may have

In 1961 Jim VanderHill may have done it.  Jim scored 40 against Hillsdale and 38 against Kalamazoo.  These opponents were played back-to-back twice but again the archives are unclear in which games the scoring occurred.


Floyd Brady scored 43, 40 and 40 against Calvin, Adrian and Alma in 1968.  The archives show Hope played those 3 schools in succession twice, but again we don't know when these score lines occurred.


So my answer to this gentlemen who hopefully sees this is I don't know, but what Nate Snuggerud did this past weekend was pretty incredible and was right up there with anything anyone has ever done at Hope in back-to-back games.  Certainly no Hope player had ever scored that many points in back-to-back post-season games.  That I'm sure of.

Any clarification from some of our more 'experienced' posters would be greatly appreciated.

[Busted Stuff]

3 -- Faculty Senate: "no"

Doesn't surprise me at all.  I've heard an overwhelming majority of faculty has been against the football idea from the start of the feasibility study.

Calvin's Faculty Senate voting "no" on football is one of the least drama filled votes in human history, the equivalant of wondering whether San Francisco will send a Democrat or Ottawa County a Republican to Congress.

Correct.  It was known long ago that they would vote this way.  The real vote comes in May as KS said.

So the real question now becomes:  If you are a member of the board of trustees are you going to vote in favor of football over the objections of the faculty senate?   Doesn't seem like a winning hand for the trustees.  With a new Pres. coming on board, and a recent history of a "less than happy faculty" who needs the grief of further alienating a significant campus public.
Smart money would say table it for a couple years and revisit in 2014 or 2015.

I can't say for sure, but I assume most Calvin board posters would be in favor of adding football to the athletics repertoire? Please share your views, Calvin and non-Calvin supporters alike. Do any of you have any idea why faculty members would be so adamantly opposed to the idea of adding it?  Most professors, it would seem, would be unaffected by the existence of a football team or lack thereof.  I apologize if this has already been discussed at length and/or if it is too far off-topic, but I didn't start the conversation.