MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[magicman]

Big weekend in D3 as the final four is determined.  Interested in what others predict.  I'm seeing Middlebury, Amherst, Wooster & Whitworth making it to Salem.

I had Middlebury, Amherst, Virginia Wesleyan and Hope in my bracket. First three are still alive and I think that one of the two CCIW teams comes out of the bracket that had Hope in it. I'd pick IWU if I knew Zimmer was 100% but I'll go with North Central instead.

[Knight2Day]

2? Grace and Trine??

104-155

Thanks....didn't think they really beat anyone of consequence this year...and I'd dare say that their overall record vs teams with winning records the last few years hasn't been that stellar.

[iwumichigander]

Big weekend in D3 as the final four is determined.  Interested in what others predict.  I'm seeing Middlebury, Amherst, Wooster & Whitworth making it to Salem.

I had Middlebury, Amherst, Virginia Wesleyan and Hope in my bracket. First three are still alive and I think that one of the two CCIW teams comes out of the bracket that had Hope in it. I'd pick IWU if I knew Zimmer was 100% but I'll go with North Central instead.

Zimmer's 28 pts vs Hope tied his season high --- so I would take that vs. Wooster.  Not sure what his status will be or how effective he can be.  He still is wearing two pairs of shoes - a walking boot and his tennies.  The injury is to the same foot as he had surgery on last year.  His performance in that Hope contest was remarkable.  It was unfortunate both Hope and IWU could not move and meet in Final Four.  Titan Nation has a lot of respect for the Hope program.  It looks lke Hope and IWU are also matched up in football 9/12/12 at Hope.

[sac]

Former frequent MIAA ref Lamont Simpson was one of the 3 officials for the Northwestern/Minnesota game tonight.

[knightvision]

Former frequent MIAA ref Lamont Simpson was one of the 3 officials for the Northwestern/Minnesota game tonight.

...and Jim Schipper did the morning game between Illinois & Iowa.

[DewCrewVett]

Overall, great season for the Dutchmen with a very disappointing outcome in the final game. I agree with what a lot of you have said about Hopes season, but for me, bouncing out in the second round of the tournament was definitely a bit of an under-achievement.

I thought the strength of the d3 field left the Dutchmen with a great chance to get to Salem, and with some luck, possibly even cut the nets down when all is said and done. IWU is a very good team, but to be the number 1 ranked team in all of D3 on your home floor, with an incredible amount of fan/community support - I think Hope really missed out on a special opportunity. Not trying to be negative, I even waited awhile for the dust to settle to say this. For me, I don't feel good about the way season ended, and as a Hope fan I think its only fair to say that, in the NCAA tournament, we did not play the way we should/could have - we under-achieved in the postseason - especially with the advantages we were given.

[Knight2Day]

Overall, great season for the Dutchmen with a very disappointing outcome in the final game. I agree with what a lot of you have said about Hopes season, but for me, bouncing out in the second round of the tournament was definitely a bit of an under-achievement.

I thought the strength of the d3 field left the Dutchmen with a great chance to get to Salem, and with some luck, possibly even cut the nets down when all is said and done. IWU is a very good team, but to be the number 1 ranked team in all of D3 on your home floor, with an incredible amount of fan/community support - I think Hope really missed out on a special opportunity. Not trying to be negative, I even waited awhile for the dust to settle to say this. For me, I don't feel good about the way season ended, and as a Hope fan I think its only fair to say that, in the NCAA tournament, we did not play the way we should/could have - we under-achieved in the postseason - especially with the advantages we were given.

Would have to agree with you DCV, I do think the fact that the MIAA is weak (especially looking historically) compared to conferences like the WIAC and the CCIW, it's going to be tough to come out of the league and have a firm grasp on what it's like to play tough competition. Look at other sports, I believe Hope women's basketball suffered the same problem the last 3-4 years, Calvin women's soccer has had it happen multiple times the last 6 years, and Adrian with baseball. I will have to say though, you'll have to watch how you talk about underachievement on this board, there's more than a few who would look at you even winning the regular season title as a major accomplishment

[augie77]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

[sac]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

Pretty sure Hope's schedule strength at the end of non-conference play was at or near #1 by massey, taking out the WMU game it was still top 15.

PS   The MIAA has been to the Final Four more times than the CCIW since 2000 and again since 1990.  Thanks for the advice though.

[KnightSlappy]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

Pretty sure Hope's schedule strength at the end of non-conference play was at or near #1 by massey, taking out the WMU game it was still top 15.

PS   The MIAA has been to the Final Four more times than the CCIW since 2000 and again since 1990.  Thanks for the advice though.

Hope played, and beat Wheaton. Albion played, and beat North Central. Calvin played Wheaton within 5 points.

Actually, I think the MIAA had a winning record vs. the CCIW this year.

[realist]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

Pretty sure Hope's schedule strength at the end of non-conference play was at or near #1 by massey, taking out the WMU game it was still top 15.

PS   The MIAA has been to the Final Four more times than the CCIW since 2000 and again since 1990.  Thanks for the advice though.

Hope played, and beat Wheaton. Albion played, and beat North Central. Calvin played Wheaton within 5 points.

Actually, I think the MIAA had a winning record vs. the CCIW this year.

So let's declare Hope the "winner" of the pre-conference schedule battle, and the MIAA the "winner" of the MIAA/CCIW battle, and acknowledge that the CCIW won the war as evidenced by it's 3 teams playing on March 9th.
I think winning the skirmishes along the way is great, but if you lose the war their glitter is dimmed.  Hope had a good season. 

[Roundball999]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

Pretty sure Hope's schedule strength at the end of non-conference play was at or near #1 by massey, taking out the WMU game it was still top 15.

PS   The MIAA has been to the Final Four more times than the CCIW since 2000 and again since 1990.  Thanks for the advice though.

Hope played, and beat Wheaton. Albion played, and beat North Central. Calvin played Wheaton within 5 points.

Actually, I think the MIAA had a winning record vs. the CCIW this year.

So let's declare Hope the "winner" of the pre-conference schedule battle, and the MIAA the "winner" of the MIAA/CCIW battle, and acknowledge that the CCIW won the war as evidenced by it's 3 teams playing on March 9th.
I think winning the skirmishes along the way is great, but if you lose the war their glitter is dimmed.  Hope had a good season. 

Won the war, this year, yes.  That's what makes this fun, the unexpected happens.

But the "won the war" comment apparently doesn't apply over the last 10-20 years collectively though.  That seems to better address the original comment about stength of non-conference schedule.

[ziggy]

Unless MIAA teams upgrade their non-conference schedules to get a taste of high level competition, they will "underachieve" when they play battle tested teams against the CCIW or WIAC.  There is a reason that IWU has now won six consecutive regional round games against number one or two nationally ranked teams--all on the road.  This helps to explain why three CCIW teams are in the round of 16, including third place IWU.  Teams like IWU may not have the best win-loss records, but they have been through the wars with numerous competitive games and are prepared for strong competition.  Hope certainly was good, but they would be so much better if they had been challenged more during the regular season, beyond a single game with WMU.

Pretty sure Hope's schedule strength at the end of non-conference play was at or near #1 by massey, taking out the WMU game it was still top 15.

PS   The MIAA has been to the Final Four more times than the CCIW since 2000 and again since 1990.  Thanks for the advice though.

Hope played, and beat Wheaton. Albion played, and beat North Central. Calvin played Wheaton within 5 points.

Actually, I think the MIAA had a winning record vs. the CCIW this year.

So let's declare Hope the "winner" of the pre-conference schedule battle, and the MIAA the "winner" of the MIAA/CCIW battle, and acknowledge that the CCIW won the war as evidenced by it's 3 teams playing on March 9th.
I think winning the skirmishes along the way is great, but if you lose the war their glitter is dimmed.  Hope had a good season. 

Won the war, this year, yes.  That's what makes this fun, the unexpected happens.

But the "won the war" comment apparently doesn't apply over the last 10-20 years collectively though.  That seems to better address the original comment about stength of non-conference schedule.

Don't try getting in the way of one of realist's narratives. He said it was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.

[KnightSlappy]

I just came up with 6-6 record for CCIW and MIAA

1-0 vs. Millikin (Adrian)
2-1 vs. Carthage (Hope, Calvin - Albion)
1-1 vs. Wheaton (Hope - Calvin)
1-1 vs. North Central (Albion - Trine)
1-1 vs. North Park (Trine - Albion)
0-2 vs. Elmhurst (Albion, Olivet)

[Happy Calvin Guy]

Re: The War

If we bring this discussion to the logical conclusion it's heading towards, we could probably just chant "where's your banners?" and leave it at that. 

But while winning a national championship is the ultimate goal, I do believe there are degrees of goodness in smaller accomplishments such as competing to the best of one's ability, winning individual games, winning "meaningless" holiday tourneys, winning regular season league titles, winning league tourneys, and advancing in the NCAA tournament.  There is nothing wrong with fans enjoying success in those "battles" as well.  Even though Hope missed out on the one that would bring the most satisfaction, I think that they should feel pretty good about winning quite a few of these battles this year.   Their season was much more than merely "good".