MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[goodknight]

Thanks, FDF.

[SBell]

Chris Coles will be announced as Olivet's coach on Monday.

[oldknight]

Chris Coles will be announced as Olivet's coach on Monday.

In all my years of watching basketball, the most unexpected and amazing last second shot I ever witnessed was the 65-footer Coles launched in 1986 to win the Class B state championship for Saginaw Buena Vista--the only points Coles scored in that game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_IWfRTlKYA

[sac]

Chris Coles bio at Saginaw Valley State

http://athletics.svsu.edu/sports/mbkb/coaches/Coles_Chris

[Stinger]

Just out of curiosity, anybody know how many 20 win seasons Douma had at Calvin?

"During his tenure at Calvin from 1984-1996, he posted 254 wins with 72 losses for a scorching .793 winning percentage. Douma's teams won six MIAA titles and earned nine NCAA post-season berths. Besides the national title, his squads gained entry to the quarterfinals twice and the semifinals once."  He was 131-28 versus MIAA teams, or something like .823 w/p.
Ed. had more 20 win seasons in 12 years at Calvin than the current coach has in 16.

Also had way better talent.   Honderd, Sall, Davis......Calvin's had no one close to those guys the last 7 years.

Knoester.   He was a bitch (and I mean that in the highest possible compliment)

[knightfire]

Just out of curiosity, anybody know how many 20 win seasons Douma had at Calvin?

"During his tenure at Calvin from 1984-1996, he posted 254 wins with 72 losses for a scorching .793 winning percentage. Douma's teams won six MIAA titles and earned nine NCAA post-season berths. Besides the national title, his squads gained entry to the quarterfinals twice and the semifinals once."  He was 131-28 versus MIAA teams, or something like .823 w/p.
Ed. had more 20 win seasons in 12 years at Calvin than the current coach has in 16.

Also had way better talent.   Honderd, Sall, Davis......Calvin's had no one close to those guys the last 7 years.

Part of what is expected of a coach is recruiting.  It seems sort of counter productive to argue that KVS's teams would do better if he had more talent when it's his job to get the players.  There are also some people who think (with good reason) that if a Honderd or Sall  type player were to appear on campus that KVS would not know how to use the talent?   
Okay lets give KVS good grades for his "coaching" ability, and at the same time he rates a failing grade for recruiting.  The result is the same.  16-12, and 13-13 seasons. 

[knightfire]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

[SBell]

Chris Coles will be announced as Olivet's coach on Monday.

In all my years of watching basketball, the most unexpected and amazing last second shot I ever witnessed was the 65-footer Coles launched in 1986 to win the Class B state championship for Saginaw Buena Vista--the only points Coles scored in that game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_IWfRTlKYA

Check out the cheerleader who does a flip while rushing the court.

[goodknight]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

There is no doubt that will change with the transition from the Byker regime to the LeRoy presidency.  It should be expected that KVS will no longer report directly to the President, but rather to Jim Timmer, the men's AD at Calvin.  A new day, coming this summer.

[arena]

Level

Just out of curiosity, anybody know how many 20 win seasons Douma had at Calvin?

"During his tenure at Calvin from 1984-1996, he posted 254 wins with 72 losses for a scorching .793 winning percentage. Douma's teams won six MIAA titles and earned nine NCAA post-season berths. Besides the national title, his squads gained entry to the quarterfinals twice and the semifinals once."  He was 131-28 versus MIAA teams, or something like .823 w/p.
Ed. had more 20 win seasons in 12 years at Calvin than the current coach has in 16.

Also had way better talent.   Honderd, Sall, Davis......Calvin's had no one close to those guys the last 7 years.

I would strongly argue that the talent that they played against was much better as well however. The night Honderd dropped 61 on K-zoo they needed every single point to put that one away. If Honderd played in today's MIAA his averages would've been around 30 and 17....if you want to argue that we don't compare apples to apples, comparing the MIAA of the late 80's-early 90's to the MIAA of the 2000's (especially the last 5 years) is not even close. Douma's teams would've gone undefeated and ran teams off the court by 35 on a nightly basis in today's league.

My point was Douma coached 6 straight seasons of Calvin basketball with at least 2 guys who either were or would eventually become All-Americans on the same team.   Hope hasn't had quite the same level of talent recently but they have had 4 all-americans in the last 7 seasons, with a couple overlapping more than once.  KVS just hasn't had the same level of talent to work with that Calvin had in those days.

Douma coached 8 guys who were good enough to be named MIAA MVP, seven years he had the leagues best player.  KVS = 4

And my argument has been, and will continue to be, that the reason why KVS hasn't had many MIAA mvp's is because he doesn't develop talent. At all. Period. The handful of players that have developed during their time at Calvin have only done so because they ditch the school's model for "off season work" and hit the gym under some other training style. He's had the players with the potential to be the MIAA mvp (John Mantel, Caleb Veldhouse, Dan Aultman, Jeremy Veenstra his sr year) but he doesn't do anything to help them develop into the players that they should become.

I don't know if Jeremy was hurt by KVS lack of talent development.  (Which I am agreeing to continue the point, not that I necessarily agree)  Jeremy was forced to play out of position his senior year.  He was forced to play the 5 because Calvin didn't have any other option.  I am convinced if Jeremy could have played his natural 4 position, he would have been MVP and Calvin would have won the MIAA tourny.  That being said, he was a darn good 5.  His last game played against Hope was a marvel to watch.

[sac]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

I'm well aware of why Eddie was let go.

I was merely responding to a comparison between the number of 20 win seasons between KVS and Douma and pointing out Eddie had more talent.

[Knight2Day]

Level

Just out of curiosity, anybody know how many 20 win seasons Douma had at Calvin?

"During his tenure at Calvin from 1984-1996, he posted 254 wins with 72 losses for a scorching .793 winning percentage. Douma's teams won six MIAA titles and earned nine NCAA post-season berths. Besides the national title, his squads gained entry to the quarterfinals twice and the semifinals once."  He was 131-28 versus MIAA teams, or something like .823 w/p.
Ed. had more 20 win seasons in 12 years at Calvin than the current coach has in 16.

Also had way better talent.   Honderd, Sall, Davis......Calvin's had no one close to those guys the last 7 years.

I would strongly argue that the talent that they played against was much better as well however. The night Honderd dropped 61 on K-zoo they needed every single point to put that one away. If Honderd played in today's MIAA his averages would've been around 30 and 17....if you want to argue that we don't compare apples to apples, comparing the MIAA of the late 80's-early 90's to the MIAA of the 2000's (especially the last 5 years) is not even close. Douma's teams would've gone undefeated and ran teams off the court by 35 on a nightly basis in today's league.

My point was Douma coached 6 straight seasons of Calvin basketball with at least 2 guys who either were or would eventually become All-Americans on the same team.   Hope hasn't had quite the same level of talent recently but they have had 4 all-americans in the last 7 seasons, with a couple overlapping more than once.  KVS just hasn't had the same level of talent to work with that Calvin had in those days.

Douma coached 8 guys who were good enough to be named MIAA MVP, seven years he had the leagues best player.  KVS = 4

And my argument has been, and will continue to be, that the reason why KVS hasn't had many MIAA mvp's is because he doesn't develop talent. At all. Period. The handful of players that have developed during their time at Calvin have only done so because they ditch the school's model for "off season work" and hit the gym under some other training style. He's had the players with the potential to be the MIAA mvp (John Mantel, Caleb Veldhouse, Dan Aultman, Jeremy Veenstra his sr year) but he doesn't do anything to help them develop into the players that they should become.

I don't know if Jeremy was hurt by KVS lack of talent development.  (Which I am agreeing to continue the point, not that I necessarily agree)  Jeremy was forced to play out of position his senior year.  He was forced to play the 5 because Calvin didn't have any other option.  I am convinced if Jeremy could have played his natural 4 position, he would have been MVP and Calvin would have won the MIAA tourny.  That being said, he was a darn good 5.  His last game played against Hope was a marvel to watch.

I agree that Jeremy was quite the player but that still leaves the other players I mentioned especially the likes of Dan Aultman who was a 1k scorer in only two years at Calvin.

[Knight2Day]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

There is no doubt that will change with the transition from the Byker regime to the LeRoy presidency.  It should be expected that KVS will no longer report directly to the President, but rather to Jim Timmer, the men's AD at Calvin.  A new day, coming this summer.

I would be shocked if KVS ever has to answer to Timmer. If that ever were the case, KVS would hate it especially considering he doesn't want anything to do with players from the Douma era.

[goodknight]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

There is no doubt that will change with the transition from the Byker regime to the LeRoy presidency.  It should be expected that KVS will no longer report directly to the President, but rather to Jim Timmer, the men's AD at Calvin.  A new day, coming this summer.

I would be shocked if KVS ever has to answer to Timmer. If that ever were the case, KVS would hate it especially considering he doesn't want anything to do with players from the Douma era.

Prepare to be shocked.

[Knight2Day]

Sac.  I hope you understand that the reason Ed. Douma was let go by Calvin was not his coaching ability, but because of CRC p.c. ones.
The irony is that the guy who had a hand in letting Ed. go now has a vested interest in protecting his more CRC p.c. but coaching deficient replacement.
You do not have to be around Calvin sports very long before it is apparent that KVS gets deferential, and preferential treatment.  It is what it is, and perhaps with the coming changes that sorry situation will be corrected.

There is no doubt that will change with the transition from the Byker regime to the LeRoy presidency.  It should be expected that KVS will no longer report directly to the President, but rather to Jim Timmer, the men's AD at Calvin.  A new day, coming this summer.

I would be shocked if KVS ever has to answer to Timmer. If that ever were the case, KVS would hate it especially considering he doesn't want anything to do with players from the Douma era.

Prepare to be shocked.

One can only h*pe