MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

The only ramifications of an adjacent state rule would be the increased number of D3 schedules with more or all D3 teams on them.  If you are going to count all D3 games (some potentially much further away than adjacent states) as a reward for scheduling using some % wizardry to justify it, then not including adjacent states because of some scary unknown makes absolute zero sense.

[Gregory Sager]

The problem is that the NCAA poobahs are unsympathetic to the unique accessibility problems of schools that are located on peninsulas. The NCAA needs more school presidents who hail from Michigan or Florida ... or Scandinavia, Korea, Malaysia, Kamchatka, or the Yucatan.

[Gregory Sager]

The only ramifications of an adjacent state rule would be the increased number of D3 schedules with more or all D3 teams on them.  If you are going to count all D3 games (some potentially much further away than adjacent states) as a reward for scheduling using some % wizardry to justify it, then not including adjacent states because of some scary unknown makes absolute zero sense.

What he said. The resistance by the NCAA to an adjacent-states rule really defies logic when you consider just how much broader the administrative-regions rule has opened up regional matchup possibilities, with Hope vs. Mississippi College being a fine Exhibit A in that regard.

[sac]

The problem is that the NCAA poobahs are unsympathetic to the unique accessibility problems of schools that are located on peninsulas. The NCAA needs more school presidents who hail from Michigan or Florida ... or Scandinavia, Korea, Malaysia, Kamchatka, or the Yucatan.

or just ask D2.

[Pat Coleman]

I get that arguement... I hear it all the time on end... but here is the deal, it isn't changing and there isn't a solution just yet to make it work (though, the all-games-count-just-play-70%-in-region will help). Remember, this isn't unique to this area... there are teams all over the country that have games that seem close-by that aren't count as regional. But I remind you... since school presidents control things... helping Hope or Calvin pick up a couple of games in Illinois will have larger ramifications across the country and from the track record so far from school presidents... they aren't going to sign off on that kind of change.

I don't see how this will help things necessarily. It would actually discourage Calvin from continuing the MIAA-CCIW classic games with Wheaton/Carthage. (And discouraging these games is counter to NCAA D3 philosophy.)

I'd still like to see "bordering states" thrown into the mix and I talked to an NCAA person about that again this summer.

How did they receive/react to the inquiry?

She was interested, at least. I made sure to specify that it wouldn't help everyone but it would help schools in island situations, and that while Michigan isn't a 500-mile island the way Texas, California and Oregon/Washington are, it's still an island from this perspective.

[Pat Coleman]

What I don't get and will not accept is that these administrative regions are geographically ridiculous.  Any 2nd grade geography student can see that.

Well, unfortunately, Division III as a whole is geographically ridiculous. These regions do, however, carve up four pretty equal slices of our 420-plus schools.

Not really defending the NCAA because I would like to work to change it still, but remember there was a time where the definition of a regional game was much more restrictive. I guess I am now on the positive side rather than the negative because I have seen this expand. Once upon a time Great Lakes teams could play slightly less than 12% of the available Division III schools in a regional game (and Atlantic teams could play about 8%). Now it is more than one-quarter. Granted, some schools can play much more than one-quarter, but it has expanded for everyone.

That's the positive I take away from this and we will continue to advocate for more common-sense solutions where they are needed.

[Gregory Sager]

One thing to keep in mind is that MIAA schools don't have a lot of kindred spirits with regard to their unusual situation within D3. There are no Florida schools that are currently D3 members. And, while Finlandia is also a D3 member, the problem that that school has with geographic accessibility has as much to do with its remoteness as it does with its peninsular location.

While this issue is very much in the forefront of the concerns of MIAA fans, the unfortunate truth is that you folks are just eight schools out of 420-plus (and your southern outpost, Trine, doesn't really suffer from Off The Beaten Path Syndrome the way that the other seven schools do). It has to be hard to get a large bureaucracy to move your way when your concerns are so literally parochial and you lack fellow victims, even when (as is true in this case) your need to have the organization's rules amended is justified.

[KnightSlappy]

I get that arguement... I hear it all the time on end... but here is the deal, it isn't changing and there isn't a solution just yet to make it work (though, the all-games-count-just-play-70%-in-region will help). Remember, this isn't unique to this area... there are teams all over the country that have games that seem close-by that aren't count as regional. But I remind you... since school presidents control things... helping Hope or Calvin pick up a couple of games in Illinois will have larger ramifications across the country and from the track record so far from school presidents... they aren't going to sign off on that kind of change.

Dave,
You mentioned the 75% rule and realignment in your last podcast with Mike DeWitt, do you know any "inside details" on the realignment process? Are they sticking with the 8 region format, or would they consider going to 6 or 10 regions? There's really no significance to the number 8 now that the tournament is selected nationally, is there?

Without looking into too many specifics, it seems that 10 40-ish team regions might make a lot of sense.

[sac]

Wouldn't complain... it is a regional game for Hope... and you can find all kinds of long (14 hour by car) distances for regional games across the country (i.e. Maine to DC, Texas to Washington). It is what it is.

The complaint isn't ever that these games ARE in region, it's that Hope-Carthage, Calvin-Elmhurst, Calvin-Wheaton, etc. (4 hours by car) AREN'T also in-region.

Well, if Hope is playing Miss College then we can assume IWU is as well.


Hope vs Miss College -- in region  863 miles   
Miss College vs Illinois Wesleyan  -- not in region  663 miles   
Hope vs Illinois Wesleyan  -- not in region   258 miles   

I've had a rethink on this, if Hope is playing Miss Coll and IWU then IWU/Miss College can't play each other and still have Grace Bible in Orlando.

In fact its been confirmed by Grace Bible's own site which has the Bible Tigers playing the Choctaws and Titans.

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Central tournament???  Based on the schedules they have posted (men and women) they are both part of this tournament.  On Friday (11/16) The NC women play Alma at 5, and the NC men play TBD at 7:30.  Guess that means there is another womens game at noon and another mens game at 3??? 

This is really weird and disappointing - at least for those who look forward to watching back-back mens games (no disrespect to any womens programs - I'm a frequent attender).  If I'm there to watch Hope on Friday, I also want to watch the other two teams play to properly "scout" them for Saturday's game.  Having a womens game between that I have no interest in is silly!!  Same sentiment if I'm there to watch one of the womens teams.

[sac]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Park tournament???

North Park is wondering how you have Hope in their tournament.  North Park --No, North Central --Yes, potential Senior moment -- most definite

[Gregory Sager]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Central tournament???  Based on the schedules they have posted (men and women) they are both part of this tournament.  On Friday (11/16) The NC women play Alma at 5, and the NC men play TBD at 7:30.  Guess that means there is another womens game at noon and another mens game at 3??? 

This is really weird and disappointing - at least for those who look forward to watching back-back mens games (no disrespect to any womens programs - I'm a frequent attender).  If I'm there to watch Hope on Friday, I also want to watch the other two teams play to properly "scout" them for Saturday's game.  Having a womens game between that I have no interest in is silly!!  Same sentiment if I'm there to watch one of the womens teams.

I share your sentiment, FDF. It's the main reason why I seldom attend NCC's annual tipoff tourney and usually go to Wheaton's all-men's-basketball Pfund Tourney instead (if NPU isn't playing at home or somewhere close) on opening weekend. However, NCC always sets up its tourney this way, and has done so for many years. It may be "silly" from your point of view as an opposing fan, but the tourney isn't designed for opposing fans -- it's designed to meet the needs of North Central's men's and women's teams and fans. The school wants its teams to play back-to-back on Friday evening so as to: a) possibly draw fans of one Cardinals team into watching the other; and: b) facilitate the casual NCC fan whose interests lie more in rooting for the Cardinals, regardless of sport, than in following one sport or the other to the extent of "scouting" the non-NCC game of the gender in question (a category of fan which includes the likes of the two of us).

[Flying Dutch Fan]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Park tournament???

North Park is wondering how you have Hope in their tournament.  North Park --No, North Central --Yes, potential Senior moment -- most definite

If they would post who is participating in the tournament I wouldn't make those mistakes - for all we know North Park IS one of the other teams 

[KnightSlappy]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Park tournament???

North Park is wondering how you have Hope in their tournament.  North Park --No, North Central --Yes, potential Senior moment -- most definite

If they would post who is participating in the tournament I wouldn't make those mistakes - for all we know North Park IS one of the other teams 

North Park is scheduled to be at the Calvin tournament that same weekend so, if you're having a really BIG senior moment, you can save the drive and head to Knollcrest and perhaps you'll think you're at the North Central tournament.

[Civic Minded]

http://gbcol.edu/bbmens/index.php/schedule/

You might notice GB will be making two trips to Florida this winter, about 3 weeks apart.

Not to mention their first game is before DIII can begin practice.

Now if we can just figure out who Hope is playing in the North Central tournament???  Based on the schedules they have posted (men and women) they are both part of this tournament.  On Friday (11/16) The NC women play Alma at 5, and the NC men play TBD at 7:30.  Guess that means there is another womens game at noon and another mens game at 3??? 

This is really weird and disappointing - at least for those who look forward to watching back-back mens games (no disrespect to any womens programs - I'm a frequent attender).  If I'm there to watch Hope on Friday, I also want to watch the other two teams play to properly "scout" them for Saturday's game.  Having a womens game between that I have no interest in is silly!!  Same sentiment if I'm there to watch one of the womens teams.

I share your sentiment, FDF. It's the main reason why I seldom attend NCC's annual tipoff tourney and usually go to Wheaton's all-men's-basketball Pfund Tourney instead (if NPU isn't playing at home or somewhere close) on opening weekend. However, NCC always sets up its tourney this way, and has done so for many years. It may be "silly" from your point of view as an opposing fan, but the tourney isn't designed for opposing fans -- it's designed to meet the needs of North Central's men's and women's teams and fans. The school wants its teams to play back-to-back on Friday evening so as to: a) possibly draw fans of one Cardinals team into watching the other; and: b) facilitate the casual NCC fan whose interests lie more in rooting for the Cardinals, regardless of sport, than in following one sport or the other to the extent of "scouting" the non-NCC game of the gender in question (a category of fan which includes the likes of the two of us).

Pretty sure FDF would feel the same way if the tournament were at Hope and it was Hope's women playing in between.  (And don't get me wrong, he's a fan of both the men's and women's teams.)