MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[calvinite]

How about the Dew Crew with chants of "you can't fill it?" I know the boys in orange and blue had a rough shooting night but that's harsh!

"You can't fill it" doesn't work quite as well after fans begin leaving because the game is non-competitive.

Although that "cheer" could have been used at any point in the entire evening, so it is still  relevant and IMHO is effective

I must have missed the game where Hope had 4,500 people in their place.

If we build it, they will come

But you didn't, so they won't.

You're just making our point - you built a place too big cause you still can't fill it!!!

Both teams have played 7 home games this season and here are the attendance averages:

Calvin - 1832
Hope - 2710

That's with Calvin already hosting a rivalry game.  Remove that one game and Calvin's average is down to 1387 - barely half of Hope's average.  And you have a very good team that should be drawing larger crowds!!

Great game played by Hope last night.

I think this whole attendance thing is ridiculous, and I think it would be better for me just to let it drop. I think it's worth noting, however,  that the VNA arena WAS sold out (and filled) for the recent F.U.N. concert this fall, and it's used and filled regularly for other non-basketball events (most notably EVERY graduation). On the other hand, DeVos is also used for non-basketball events. In fact, the last time I was at DeVos was to see the Calvin women playing in the NCAA volleyball finals. It was not filled with Hope fans or St. Thomas fans, but Calvin fans-- and HUNDREDS of Calvin fans drove out to Holland and were turned away because there weren't seats available. Perhaps Hope should have built a considerably larger place? Hope draws more fans, and most Calvin fans, at least this Calvin fan, wish more Calvin fans did attend our home games. The 'can't fill it' thing, some might argue, is better than building a place arguably too small and too often sold out. Weeks ago I purchased 6 tickets for the most recent Hope-Calvin game but had to purchase 2 more at the last minute--which I was able to do. It's not all bad that it wasn't filled.

[wiz]

I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon to beat up an already beat up team.  Sooner or later the bubble bursts for most all teams and you just claw your way through it the best you can.  Calvin was in that boat last year with many injuries and hopes dashed with Brink out before the season even started.

The first rivalry game is over, let's move on.  I think the real test for Calvin will be this Saturday at Trine.  How they respond in Angola after last night's victory will tell much about the character of this team.

It has been a pleasure this year to see this group of talented and unselfish players come together as a unified team.  Several are in quite different roles from last year but they all appear to be on board with the "system" and are executing well.  A very mature group.

Good points.  In fact I'm excited to see this game, just have to figure out how to ask my wife if she wants to go.  I've not seen Trine's campus and Saturday looks to be a good day for a road trip.  Is there anything interesting shopping around there that may help my case?

Don't know about shopping but when you enter Hershey Hall for the basketball game you will think you are back in the old Knollcrest Fieldhouse.  As you enter the facility you will feel like you are at the old Calvin concession area in front of the multi-purpose room and look down on the basketball court where you will see the similar columns in the corners, the suspended ceiling, the main court and the two practice courts that cross it.  you will notice the upper deck bleachers that fold to the front of the side other practice areas and then you will sppot the stairwell that leads down to the locker rooms and weight room.  Many, many similarities.  So, my advice is to bill your trip down to Angola on Saturday as a nostalgic architectural tour.  She might like that.  And, while your there, you might as welll pick up the Calvin/Trine basketball game.

If you can't make that work, stay home and watch Carissa Verkaik, who scored 37 points last night to become the all-time MIAA leading scorer, lead the Calvin Women's team in action at the beautiful Van Noord Arena.

Either way, it should be a great day.  Both the men's team and the women's team are undefeated in league action and sit atop the MIAA.

[ziggy]

I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon to beat up an already beat up team.  Sooner or later the bubble bursts for most all teams and you just claw your way through it the best you can.  Calvin was in that boat last year with many injuries and hopes dashed with Brink out before the season even started.

The first rivalry game is over, let's move on.  I think the real test for Calvin will be this Saturday at Trine.  How they respond in Angola after last night's victory will tell much about the character of this team.

It has been a pleasure this year to see this group of talented and unselfish players come together as a unified team.  Several are in quite different roles from last year but they all appear to be on board with the "system" and are executing well.  A very mature group.

Good points.  In fact I'm excited to see this game, just have to figure out how to ask my wife if she wants to go.  I've not seen Trine's campus and Saturday looks to be a good day for a road trip.  Is there anything interesting shopping around there that may help my case?

As for shopping, yes: http://www.horizongroup.com/our-centers/fremont/directions-transportation/default.aspx
As for interesting, I'll let you, or more importantly, the Mrs., decide.

[neilrocks]

100% coaches decision.  Going to reek havoc on everyone else's second unit.  Hope has the biggest bench in the united states- 6'6, 6'8, 6'10

Hope has an excellent history of players returning for their senior year  and having great seasons. 
Reimink, Cramer, Vander Heide, Bowser, and Krombeen all had great senior seasons.  I have to believe that Snuggerud is going to get his game and head together. I can't see Snuggerud remaining on the second unit.  Hope has too much talent too think they aren't going to be in the mix for a conference championship.

When you go off on your coach and teammates in a team meeting and then tell your coach to "bench" you.  I think he will spend "some" time on the bench.  IMHO, he needs to stay there.  The bench is a good spot for those who don't like to see it the team way

I think between my post and hoop dreams we have given enough details on the snugs situation.  Although, I was hopeful in early January, he had turned the corner and would excel the remainder of the year, it appears that is not going be the case.
But, to all posters, we do not know all the details, but MN does.  Therefore, I will support and back his decision and judgment.  Based on most people's view of last night, I would say MN is doing what he feels is best for the program.  End of story.

BTW, congrats to Calvin on one of the most impressive team victories in the last 25 years of this rivalry.

[calvinite]

Calvin's highlight video of the game: http://vimeo.com/57637835

[Roundball999]

The situation with Snuggerud is understood and the Sentinel article also gave it some public explanation.  While the Snugs situation is disappointing for Hope fans, personally I am more perplexed that NVA languishes on the bench.  He does not have the issues that Snugs has and I don't believe this team comes close to reaching its potential with NVA not getting enough minutes to even get in the flow of the game. Just my opinion.  I'm sure MN is doing what he feels is best for the program and none of us have his every day perspective on the players and the team.  However, that doesn't necessarily mean he has chosen the best approach or that we must agree with him.  Is he really coming close to maximizing the potential and performance of the team?  Recognizing of course that he rightfully operates within a program value system that thankfully is not a "win at all cost"?  I'm not yet convinced.

[hoopdreams]

I could tell you exactly why NVA doesn't see more floor time but it wouldn't be positive, so I will refrain.  This knowledge coming from watching him since he was in 10th grade including AAU games (against other talented kids, not the generally undersized-underskilled competition of high school),  a former hopester, and another college coach who recruited him for about 6 minutes.  Or you could watch a practice or two, they generally speak volumes

Will my karma be negated simply because my name was used in a couple posts tonight?

Well that took about 10 minutes....guess the answer was yes!  Blessings!!!

[calvin_grad]

I think this whole attendance thing is ridiculous, and I think it would be better for me just to let it drop. I think it's worth noting, however,  that the VNA arena WAS sold out (and filled) for the recent F.U.N. concert this fall, and it's used and filled regularly for other non-basketball events (most notably EVERY graduation). On the other hand, DeVos is also used for non-basketball events. In fact, the last time I was at DeVos was to see the Calvin women playing in the NCAA volleyball finals. It was not filled with Hope fans or St. Thomas fans, but Calvin fans-- and HUNDREDS of Calvin fans drove out to Holland and were turned away because there weren't seats available. Perhaps Hope should have built a considerably larger place? Hope draws more fans, and most Calvin fans, at least this Calvin fan, wish more Calvin fans did attend our home games. The 'can't fill it' thing, some might argue, is better than building a place arguably too small and too often sold out. Weeks ago I purchased 6 tickets for the most recent Hope-Calvin game but had to purchase 2 more at the last minute--which I was able to do. It's not all bad that it wasn't filled.

Bingo.  This one too. 

[sac]

hoopsville interview with committee chair Mike DeWitt (OWU coach)  starts at 10:30, its about 35 minutes.  First part is about OWU, 2nd about the tournament starts around the 25 min mark.
http://d3hoops.com/hoopsville/archives/2012-13/jan17

Good answers, interesting if you're interested in the tournament.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I've only seen NVA in two (in-person) games (the two national tourney games in Holland last spring), so take this with however many grains of salt you deem appropriate.  My impressions:  OMG he is HUGE.  But more relevant - either he is still VERY raw, or he just isn't very good.  A very few times he dominated by sheer size alone, but most of the time he just took up a LOT of space.

On the other hand, Nate Snuggerud was unbelievable (both nights).  His pre-season AA selection did not surprise me a bit.  I'm disappointed and saddened that his senior year is shaping up as such a disappointment (for whatever reasons).  Pleased to see the emergence of Colton Overway after the very large shadows of David Krombeen and Peter Bunn have graduated - he impressed me greatly in those games also.

[calvinite]

Just for the fun of it, let's say Hope does 'run the table' and finishes 13-1 with Calvin also finishing 13-1. Will the host of the tournament be determined by coin toss or other criteria? If other criteria, what would that be?

[KnightSlappy]

Just for the fun of it, let's say Hope does 'run the table' and finishes 13-1 with Calvin also finishing 13-1. Will the host of the tournament be determined by coin toss or other criteria? If other criteria, what would that be?

It would be a coin flip, I believe.

The tiebreakers are:

1. Head-to-head results
2. Results vs. the #1 team
3. Results vs. the #2 team
...
9. Results vs. the #8 team
10. Coin flip

If the tie is for 4th place, and the tiebreaker determines who's in/out of the MIAA Tournament, they decided last year to only look at head-to-head results. If the teams split, they'd play an additional tiebreaker game. It all gets slightly more complicated if there are three or four way ties.

[oldknight]

There has been much discussion this year over playing time and how many minutes starters should get. To me one interesting dynamic to this week's rivalry game was how playing time was dished out by Calvin in the decisive first half. Basically the Knights played that half with seven players with only DeVries and Powell getting meaningful minutes at 13 apiece. The only other Calvin player who got floor time the first half was Stout who played a mere 5 minutes, typically in short bursts of one to two minutes in order to spell one of the big guys. By contrast, Hope used 12 players in the first half.

I mention this in part to express my admiration for those Knight players who played significant roles on last year's squad but who have been asked to play less while still being supportive of team goals for 2012-13. This is no easy task but from my limited grandstand observation, it seems they are being good soldiers about it. Take Matt DeBoer as an example. He started 21 games last season and averaged over 23 minutes and 11 points per game. Wednesday night he played only two minutes and didn't even get into the game until there was less than five minutes remaining--what we disdainfully call garbage time--but still played as hard as if the contest's outcome depended on his performance. Ya' gotta respect a senior who who is able to do that after taking such a prominent role last season. Both Jordan Mast and Mitch Vallie have also seen their minutes dramatically reduced since last year and should be commended.

[ziggy]

Just for the fun of it, let's say Hope does 'run the table' and finishes 13-1 with Calvin also finishing 13-1. Will the host of the tournament be determined by coin toss or other criteria? If other criteria, what would that be?

Based on Massey's current monte carlo simulations, there is a 1.86% chance of this happening.

[Busted Stuff]

Just for the fun of it, let's say Hope does 'run the table' and finishes 13-1 with Calvin also finishing 13-1. Will the host of the tournament be determined by coin toss or other criteria? If other criteria, what would that be?

Based on Massey's current monte carlo simulations, there is a 1.86% chance of this happening.

Though I'd imagine it is probably less than that, because this assumes that Hope wins all 9 remaining games (5.83% according to Massey) and Calvin wins 8 of 9 remaining games (31.98%). The 31.98% doesn't guarantee Calvin's 1 loss is to Hope. If the loss was predicted to be to the Dutch (and not any other MIAA constituent), I'd have to imagine the 31.98% chance diminishes considerably.  And as a result, the 1.86% chance.