MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[oldknight]

Thank you for the previews and insights, HCG and Ziggy.  It looks like St Thomas had quite a bit of FT attempts (39) last Saturday night.  Just a little piece of info I might add

Saturday should be a fun day with the Calvin game, D1 Conference Tourneys, and St. Patty's Days festivities all going on at once.  Is it the weekend yet?

Unless you're Dave McHugh, St. Patty's Day isn't going to be first on your list of priorities this weekend--and he's going to be stuck in Holland, not exactly a hotbed for Irish Nation. Maybe Holland Brewing Company, right down the street from DeVos Fieldhouse, will be suitable for d-mac.

Even more than their rebounding prowess (+8), the Tommies' ability to get to the line is most impressive to me. In 29 games St. Thomas has taken 640 free throws, some 132 more than Calvin. That's a lot of charity striping and it tells me they are very good at getting defenses out of position. St Thomas fouled out two Wheaton players Saturday night and three others ended the game with four personals. Maybe Calvin's length will help take some of the flow out of a very good offensive team, but if the Knights are putting the Tommies at the line with regularity, that does not bode well for the visiting team.

Ball security will be an issue but Calvin has made great strides in that area this year. I'm not terribly surprised Wheaton had 21 turnovers against St. Thomas. The one weakness I saw when Calvin played the Thunder (seemingly ages ago) was their looseness in taking care of the ball. Wheaton committed 24 against the Knights that Friday evening in November--15 coming in the first half--but Calvin was so pathetic on offense that game it made no difference.

I am no fan of the NCAA's setup of this season's one-game-a-week tournament (I think it's ridiculous--don't get me started) but as ziggy and realist suggest, it may help the Knights this week. For all of the perceived or real deficiencies of KVS, his team's record as a coach of a tournament team is first rate. He's now 14-5 at tournament time (mostly on the road) and doing that against unknown, high quality competition when it's win or go home is really outstanding. Giving Calvin a week to prepare entirely for one opponent improves their odds.

As HCG mentions, Calvin continues to move up the Massey Ratings. The Knights' strength of schedule is also up to 39 which is significantly higher than it was several weeks ago. By dim memory I believe Calvin was once somewhere around 140 and will improve again Saturday by playing the no. 1 team which has a 17 SoS. Hope and Adrian also are moving up in the rankings as the tournament progresses. Hope in particular is helped a lot by their games against several tournament teams still alive--Calvin, IWU, and NCC--and Adrian benefits from a Wooster squad that has won two games.

[Dave 'd-mac' McHugh]

Thank you for the previews and insights, HCG and Ziggy.  It looks like St Thomas had quite a bit of FT attempts (39) last Saturday night.  Just a little piece of info I might add

Saturday should be a fun day with the Calvin game, D1 Conference Tourneys, and St. Patty's Days festivities all going on at once.  Is it the weekend yet?

Unless you're Dave McHugh, St. Patty's Day isn't going to be first on your list of priorities this weekend--and he's going to be stuck in Holland, not exactly a hotbed for Irish Nation. Maybe Holland Brewing Company, right down the street from DeVos Fieldhouse, will be suitable for d-mac.

I will try and find a way to celebrate... though having a beer (or two) Sunday morning before I drive to Detroit for my flight back to Baltimore may not be the best idea... so I may have to celebrate Saturday night... OR on Hoopsville Sunday night!

But thanks of thinking of me... and Holland Brewing Company is on my list of places to check out on this trip to Michigan!

[ziggy]

IIRC, Calvin's Massey SOS was around 103 when the tournament started, went to about 74 after beating RHIT and is now, as oldknight stated, at 39.

[ziggy]

Thank you for the previews and insights, HCG and Ziggy.  It looks like St Thomas had quite a bit of FT attempts (39) last Saturday night.  Just a little piece of info I might add

Saturday should be a fun day with the Calvin game, D1 Conference Tourneys, and St. Patty's Days festivities all going on at once.  Is it the weekend yet?

Unless you're Dave McHugh, St. Patty's Day isn't going to be first on your list of priorities this weekend--and he's going to be stuck in Holland, not exactly a hotbed for Irish Nation. Maybe Holland Brewing Company, right down the street from DeVos Fieldhouse, will be suitable for d-mac.

I will try and find a way to celebrate... though having a beer (or two) Sunday morning before I drive to Detroit for my flight back to Baltimore may not be the best idea... so I may have to celebrate Saturday night... OR on Hoopsville Sunday night!

But thanks of thinking of me... and Holland Brewing Company is on my list of places to check out on this trip to Michigan!

My Holland geography is a bit fuzzy, but isn't The Curragh basically across the street from New Holland?

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I am no fan of the NCAA's setup of this season's one-game-a-week tournament (I think it's ridiculous--don't get me started) but as ziggy and realist suggest, it may help the Knights this week.

At the risk of being chastised again for looking beyond just the upcoming weekend, I think there is a huge long-term tangible benefit of this spread-out tournament structure: extra practices.  Much is made of this phenomena for the middle tier 6-6 or 7-5 type D1 football teams who get a bowl bid.  They get an extra 3-4 weeks of practice that they wouldn't have if they had missed the postseason bowl.  This year, for D3 men's basketball teams, each win means an extra week of 5 practices, and getting to the national championship game means an extra 10 with the two week break.  All in all, six extra weeks for teams who go to the national championship game vs teams who don't make the tournament.  That's 30 extra practices.  In an world so tightly regulated by the NCAA with a mandated earliest first day of practice in fall, limits on number/hours of practices, etc, this is a huge benefit to the long term health of a program. 

[realist]

As a team Calvin has committed 381 fouls ytd for an ave. of 13/game.
Opponents have committed 458 fouls for an ave. of 16/game.

Calvin has shot 508 ft's ytd or about 18/game while opponents have shot 403 or about 14 per game.

While the number of ft's that St Thomas has shot (per OK) is impressive, one has to consider Calvin's defense has done a pretty impressive job of playing defense and avoiding fouling.  Only two Calvin players have fouled out of games ytd.  De Vries once, and Dykstra once. 

Not sure what this all means, but hopefully Calvin will plays it's game, and defense like it has all season, and not buy into fouling to do it.  From what I recall viewing St. Thomas games they play very aggressive offense, and that can lead to fouls.   Calvin needs to be smart on defense, and by all means control the boards.

[oldknight]

I am no fan of the NCAA's setup of this season's one-game-a-week tournament (I think it's ridiculous--don't get me started) but as ziggy and realist suggest, it may help the Knights this week.

At the risk of being chastised again for looking beyond just the upcoming weekend, I think there is a huge long-term tangible benefit of this spread-out tournament structure: extra practices.  Much is made of this phenomena for the middle tier 6-6 or 7-5 type D1 football teams who get a bowl bid.  They get an extra 3-4 weeks of practice that they wouldn't have if they had missed the postseason bowl.  This year, for D3 men's basketball teams, each win means an extra week of 5 practices, and getting to the national championship game means an extra 10 with the two week break.  All in all, six extra weeks for teams who go to the national championship game vs teams who don't make the tournament.  That's 30 extra practices.  In an world so tightly regulated by the NCAA with a mandated earliest first day of practice in fall, limits on number/hours of practices, etc, this is a huge benefit to the long term health of a program.

I agree there is likely to be a residual effect that could benefit Calvin if they keep winning. Based on the current roster, we can expect 11 returning varsity players next October and extra practice time now makes the seasonal transition easier. But as much as I like D3 sports, this is not in keeping with the philosophy of education at the D3 level.

I'm particularly concerned with how this affects the two teams that advance to the finals in Atlanta. In Michigan high school tournament basketball, they play the eight semis on Thursday/Friday and the four final games on Saturday. Back in the 70's (that the 1970's, not the 1870's for you jokers out there), MHSAA had a brief time (I think it lasted about 5 years) when it played the semis one weekend and the finals the following Saturday. It was a horrid idea that has not reared its ugly head since returning to the model we have today. One week off just to play one final game satisfied no one and now the NCAA wants to put finals on hold for two weeks? What are the two remaining teams going to do with all that free time, scrimmage each other?

[ziggy]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

[GoKnights68]

As a team Calvin has committed 381 fouls ytd for an ave. of 13/game.
Opponents have committed 458 fouls for an ave. of 16/game.

Calvin has shot 508 ft's ytd or about 18/game while opponents have shot 403 or about 14 per game.

While the number of ft's that St Thomas has shot (per OK) is impressive, one has to consider Calvin's defense has done a pretty impressive job of playing defense and avoiding fouling.  Only two Calvin players have fouled out of games ytd.  De Vries once, and Dykstra once. 

Not sure what this all means, but hopefully Calvin will plays it's game, and defense like it has all season, and not buy into fouling to do it.  From what I recall viewing St. Thomas games they play very aggressive offense, and that can lead to fouls.   Calvin needs to be smart on defense, and by all means control the boards.

In other words, do the opposite of what Michigan does.

[AO]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

[ziggy]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

OK then. This page lists capacity as 2,000 in one spot, then 2,250 in another. On the same page... http://www.stthomas.edu/aarc/facilities/schoenecker/default.html

[AO]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

OK then. This page lists capacity as 2,000 in one spot, then 2,250 in another. On the same page... http://www.stthomas.edu/aarc/facilities/schoenecker/default.html

They might be throwing an extra 250 out there for the people who watch from behind the glass for free on the 2nd level. 

[oldknight]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

Maybe 65% full the majority of games, even if the gym's capacity is only 1500. Tommies average home attendance this season has been 967.

[AO]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

Maybe 65% full the majority of games, even if the gym's capacity is only 1500. Tommies average home attendance this season has been 967.

You're right, same idea.  They had $60 Million to spend and could have put in 5000 seats, but wanted a cozier gym. 

[oldknight]

I'm interested to see what kind of a crowd is at St. Thomas on Saturday night. From the looks of it, they've been about 75% capacity for the tournament games so far (1,500 in attendance) and the campus hasn't been on spring break (that is at the end of the month according to the UST academic calendar).

I'm not sure what kind of an atmosphere they typically have up there but I doubt it will be more intimidating than what Calvin saw at Point. In actuality, Calvin (and Hope) should never be overly impacted by a hostile road environment considering none will compare to what they face in The Rivalry.

It would be nice to see another strong Calvin contingent. I know of two people that will be making their first road trip of the tourney this weekend...

1500 is right about capacity for the Shoe.  Fan#1600 is not going to find a seat. They have a couple balconies that they don't currently sell tickets for, so they're probably estimating an additional 500 seats there to come up with their 2000 seat official capacity.   They definitely did not approach their building in the same way Calvin did in terms of capacity.  They knew they'd be able to sell more than 2500 tickets for a couple games a year but they'd rather have the gym be 80% full for the majority of games.

Maybe 65% full the majority of games, even if the gym's capacity is only 1500. Tommies average home attendance this season has been 967.

You're right, same idea.  They had $60 Million to spend and could have put in 5000 seats, but wanted a cozier gym.

There's a lot to be said for the atmosphere created by a more compact gymnasium, that's for sure. They can be fun places for a fan of basketball. There's also something to be said for having a larger facility that has more than one purpose. Comfortably seated in an air conditioned arena to watch graduation is one of those purposes. Of course, as folks in West Michigan are learning to their chagrin, we really didn't have $60 million to spend for those 5000 seats.