MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[KnightSlappy]

Earlier someone asked if conference tournament games were included in the 70% calculation. Did we ever get an answer on that? 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if only the 25 game regular season counts, doesn't this mean the Calvin's only chance to get in to the NCAA tournament is to win the conference tournament?

This is my understanding, yes.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2012/february/diii+championships+committee+addresses+regional+concerns+via+selection+criteria

committee members voted to include as part of the primary selection criteria for team sports the requirement that institutions play at least 70 percent of their competition against Division III in-region opponents beginning with the 2013-14 academic year.

While that’s an increase from the current 50 percent, the Championships Committee also agreed that all contests against Division III institutions would be included in the primary criteria (with non-Division III competition included in the secondary criteria).

I'd be very surprised, though, if they didn't count league tournament games. They currently count them for selection criteria.

Let me run this unlikely scenario by you. Let's say Calvin has a terrific regular season, going 25-0 (and a likely no. 1 ranking in the D3 hoops poll), but they get upset in the first game of the conference tournament. If that happens, the Knights have played 18 of their 26 games in-region, which is 69.2%. Is Calvin then ineligible for an at large spot? If so, the conference tournament semifinal would be a must win, while the conference final would almost certainly not.

By my understanding, Calvin would indeed be ineligible by the letter of the law. I'm not sure whether the NCAA would call 69.2% "close enough" or not. They may say 70% of 26 is 18.2 = 18 games (rounded). In that case Calvin would be fine.

Instead of 70%, I'd rather they spell out like:

23 GP -- 16 in-region required
24 GP -- 17 in-region required
25 GP -- 18 in-region required
26 GP -- 18 in-region required
27 GP -- 19 in-region required
28 GP -- 20 in-region required

or whatever it actually would be.

[oldknight]

Earlier someone asked if conference tournament games were included in the 70% calculation. Did we ever get an answer on that? 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if only the 25 game regular season counts, doesn't this mean the Calvin's only chance to get in to the NCAA tournament is to win the conference tournament?

This is my understanding, yes.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2012/february/diii+championships+committee+addresses+regional+concerns+via+selection+criteria

committee members voted to include as part of the primary selection criteria for team sports the requirement that institutions play at least 70 percent of their competition against Division III in-region opponents beginning with the 2013-14 academic year.

While that's an increase from the current 50 percent, the Championships Committee also agreed that all contests against Division III institutions would be included in the primary criteria (with non-Division III competition included in the secondary criteria).

I'd be very surprised, though, if they didn't count league tournament games. They currently count them for selection criteria.

Let me run this unlikely scenario by you. Let's say Calvin has a terrific regular season, going 25-0 (and a likely no. 1 ranking in the D3 hoops poll), but they get upset in the first game of the conference tournament. If that happens, the Knights have played 18 of their 26 games in-region, which is 69.2%. Is Calvin then ineligible for an at large spot? If so, the conference tournament semifinal would be a must win, while the conference final would almost certainly not.

By my understanding, Calvin would indeed be ineligible by the letter of the law. I'm not sure whether the NCAA would call 69.2% "close enough" or not. They may say 70% of 26 is 18.2 = 18 games (rounded). In that case Calvin would be fine.

Instead of 70%, I'd rather they spell out like:

23 GP -- 16 in-region required
24 GP -- 17 in-region required
25 GP -- 18 in-region required
26 GP -- 18 in-region required
27 GP -- 19 in-region required
28 GP -- 20 in-region required

or whatever it actually would be.

If that's so, maybe legal action against Bluffton should be considered. They may have only given a verbal commitment to the Tip-Off Tournament before backing out but any lawyer worth his salt  should be able to get around that problem. The mere threat of litigation might be enough to get them to recommit.

[ziggy]

Bluffton's schedule shows 11/21 against OSU-Mansfield and 11/23 against Goshen, both home games: http://www.bluffton.edu/sports/mensbasketball/2014/schedule.html

[Titan Q]

By my understanding, Calvin would indeed be ineligible by the letter of the law. I'm not sure whether the NCAA would call 69.2% "close enough" or not. They may say 70% of 26 is 18.2 = 18 games (rounded). In that case Calvin would be fine.

Instead of 70%, I'd rather they spell out like:

23 GP -- 16 in-region required
24 GP -- 17 in-region required
25 GP -- 18 in-region required
26 GP -- 18 in-region required
27 GP -- 19 in-region required
28 GP -- 20 in-region required

or whatever it actually would be.

I thought the "70% rule" just basically said that if a team plays 70% of it's game vs "in-region" teams, then all D3 games count for purposes of selection and seeding (and not just in-region D3 games). 

I'm confused as to how this new rule would mean that Calvin would have to win the MIAA tournament to make the NCAA tournament?  Thanks for the clarification - I'm lost on this discussion.

[oldknight]

By my understanding, Calvin would indeed be ineligible by the letter of the law. I'm not sure whether the NCAA would call 69.2% "close enough" or not. They may say 70% of 26 is 18.2 = 18 games (rounded). In that case Calvin would be fine.

Instead of 70%, I'd rather they spell out like:

23 GP -- 16 in-region required
24 GP -- 17 in-region required
25 GP -- 18 in-region required
26 GP -- 18 in-region required
27 GP -- 19 in-region required
28 GP -- 20 in-region required

or whatever it actually would be.

I thought the "70% rule" just basically said that if a team plays 70% of it's game vs "in-region" teams, then all D3 games count for purposes of selection and seeding (and not just in-region D3 games). 

I'm confused as to how this new rule would mean that Calvin would have to win the MIAA tournament to make the NCAA tournament?  Thanks for the clarification - I'm lost on this discussion.

The room is large and filled with people milling about smartly.

[ziggy]

By my understanding, Calvin would indeed be ineligible by the letter of the law. I'm not sure whether the NCAA would call 69.2% "close enough" or not. They may say 70% of 26 is 18.2 = 18 games (rounded). In that case Calvin would be fine.

Instead of 70%, I'd rather they spell out like:

23 GP -- 16 in-region required
24 GP -- 17 in-region required
25 GP -- 18 in-region required
26 GP -- 18 in-region required
27 GP -- 19 in-region required
28 GP -- 20 in-region required

or whatever it actually would be.

I thought the "70% rule" just basically said that if a team plays 70% of it's game vs "in-region" teams, then all D3 games count for purposes of selection and seeding (and not just in-region D3 games). 

I'm confused as to how this new rule would mean that Calvin would have to win the MIAA tournament to make the NCAA tournament?  Thanks for the clarification - I'm lost on this discussion.

It is a required part of primary selection criteria per a previous release:

Meeting Feb. 22-23 in Indianapolis, committee members voted to include as part of the primary selection criteria for team sports the requirement that institutions play at least 70 percent of their competition against Division III in-region opponents beginning with the 2013-14 academic year.

[ziggy]

The only consolation I can find in this scheduling mess is that this appears to be the final year for the Tip-Off Tourney.  It's not yet official, but Calvin and another MIAA school (not Hope) are in the process of finalizing a four-year deal beginning in the 2014-15 season to play two in-region D3 schools in a format similar to the MIAA-CCIW Challenge.  One of the schools is a traditional D3 athletic power, while the other is decidedly not, but seeking to establish a stronger basketball program.  That series would effectively supplant the Tip-Off Tourney, and go a long way toward giving Calvin a pair of much-needed in-region games, and at least one of them against a high-quality opponent, the first weekend of the season.

Surprised no one has played the guessing game yet. Put me down for Calvin and Adrian on the MIAA side with the other half of the "challenge" filled by Wittenberg and Oberlin.

[oldknight]

The only consolation I can find in this scheduling mess is that this appears to be the final year for the Tip-Off Tourney.  It's not yet official, but Calvin and another MIAA school (not Hope) are in the process of finalizing a four-year deal beginning in the 2014-15 season to play two in-region D3 schools in a format similar to the MIAA-CCIW Challenge.  One of the schools is a traditional D3 athletic power, while the other is decidedly not, but seeking to establish a stronger basketball program.  That series would effectively supplant the Tip-Off Tourney, and go a long way toward giving Calvin a pair of much-needed in-region games, and at least one of them against a high-quality opponent, the first weekend of the season.

Surprised no one has played the guessing game yet. Put me down for Calvin and Adrian on the MIAA side with the other half of the "challenge" filled by Wittenberg and Oberlin.

Calvin/Albion?

[KnightSlappy]

Guessing Randolph-Macon and Lynchburg are the other two.

[Titan Q]

It is a required part of primary selection criteria per a previous release:

Meeting Feb. 22-23 in Indianapolis, committee members voted to include as part of the primary selection criteria for team sports the requirement that institutions play at least 70 percent of their competition against Division III in-region opponents beginning with the 2013-14 academic year.

Yikes, didn't realize that.  I think the old rule was 50%.

Thanks.

[KnightSlappy]

Not sure if it has been reported on this board, but Mitch Vallie will not be returning to Calvin in the fall.

[almcguirejr]

Not sure if it has been reported on this board, but Mitch Vallie will not be returning to Calvin in the fall.

That's a big loss.  He was going to be a 20 minute a game player.  He had some good minutes during the tournament. 

[sac]

You could always play those new to the region AMCC schools. 


Saw this today, the opposite of the Yu Darvish gif.  Maybe one of those is a strike?

[arena]

Not sure if it has been reported on this board, but Mitch Vallie will not be returning to Calvin in the fall.

That's a big loss.  He was going to be a 20 minute a game player.  He had some good minutes during the tournament.

Any word why?

[sflzman]

The only consolation I can find in this scheduling mess is that this appears to be the final year for the Tip-Off Tourney.  It's not yet official, but Calvin and another MIAA school (not Hope) are in the process of finalizing a four-year deal beginning in the 2014-15 season to play two in-region D3 schools in a format similar to the MIAA-CCIW Challenge.  One of the schools is a traditional D3 athletic power, while the other is decidedly not, but seeking to establish a stronger basketball program.  That series would effectively supplant the Tip-Off Tourney, and go a long way toward giving Calvin a pair of much-needed in-region games, and at least one of them against a high-quality opponent, the first weekend of the season.

Surprised no one has played the guessing game yet. Put me down for Calvin and Adrian on the MIAA side with the other half of the "challenge" filled by Wittenberg and Oberlin.

Calvin/Albion?

I'm actually pretty sure it's Alma. Coach Hargraves has an extremely beefed up schedule this year and was looking to try and get Wheaton on the schedule annually along with some other CCIWs last I heard. With his obvious connection to Calvin it would make sense that they might collaborate to do that