MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[KnightSlappy]

I'm speaking from a place of ignorance here (I have no idea what the criteria for hosting are), so excuse me if this is a dumb question, but is there any chance that if Calvin runs the tables through the MIAA tourney they could enter this hosting discussion with a record of 22-5 and MIAA tourney champs?

Highly unlikely I would think - given that they have not been and are not likely to be ranked (regionally).

Very, very unlikely. I think they would certainly be ranked in the final (hidden) rankings, but probably still below Hope. Their D3 record would be 19-4 (.826) and the best possible SOS is probably still 0.495 or so. That's not going to demand a high seed.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I did a little more thinking on MIAA MVP since I briefly posted on the topic a couple of weeks ago.  I used the assumption that only regular season conference games are considered. 

First, some good players I didn't consider:
--Mark Ghafari--missed 3 games, didn't play for a contending team, and didn't post the eye popping numbers that he did in the non conference games
--Blake Krum--Missed 1 game, didn't play for a contending team, and his rate stats are not excellent
--Tyler Good--Missed 2 games, didn't play for top two team. Solid season, but I don't think anyone would talk MVP for him.

So, here are the players I did take a look at:  primarily, Tyler Kruis, Jordan Brink, Alex Eidson, DJ Beckman, and Ben Gardner.  I did throw Adam Peters and Nate Van Arendonk in the mix just for kicks, but don't believe there to be a serious MVP argument for either. 

One stat I enjoy personally is totalling up shooting percentages for FG/3 pt/FT, the type of stat that guys like Larry Bird or Steve Nash excel at.  A great number is 1.800 (could be achieved by shooting .500/.400/.900).  Here's how my seven MVP candidates rank:

1.  Tyler Kruis 1.953 (skewed by a .600 rate on triples on a relatively small sample size, but still an incredible total number)
2.  DJ Beckman 1.906
3.  Jordan Brink 1.813
4.  Alex Eidson 1.791
5.  Adam Peters 1.563
6.  Ben Gardner 1.562
7.  Nate Van Arendonk 1.374 (skewed by not taking any 3's)

I also looked at the simplistic player efficiency rank: (points + reb + ast +blk + stl - missed FG - missed FT - TO)/games.  The seven candidates:

1.  Tyler Kruis 18.8
2.  DJ Beckman 17.9
3.  Adam Peters 16.2
4 (tie).  Alex Eidson 15.4
4 (tie).  Jordan Brink 15.4
6.  Nate Van Arendonk 14.7
7.  Ben Gardner 14.2

So, I think there is a real case that can be made for Tyler Kruis as our 2013-14 MVP.  I don't think Beckman would get consideration despite what's turned into an excellent season--his was not a clearly statistically dominant performance (e.g. Mike McClary or Ian Jackson), and he played for a 2nd tier team.  I would consider Eidson for MVP if you throw a lot of weight to his domination in the two wins over Calvin that essentially decided the regular season title.  Watching games and not just stat sheets, Gardner should have some support as the best floor general and generally disruptive defensive force that he is.  Also, if there tends to be a voter bias to seniors, Kruis would have the edge over Brink, Eidson, Gardner, etc. And of course there is still one game remaining.  Bottom line, at this point, I'd vote Kruis first and Eidson second.

I'd be interested to hear others' opinions or if anyone thinks I missed anyone that should be included in this discussion.

[Happy Calvin Guy]

I'm speaking from a place of ignorance here (I have no idea what the criteria for hosting are), so excuse me if this is a dumb question, but is there any chance that if Calvin runs the tables through the MIAA tourney they could enter this hosting discussion with a record of 22-5 and MIAA tourney champs?

Highly unlikely I would think - given that they have not been and are not likely to be ranked (regionally).

Very, very unlikely. I think they would certainly be ranked in the final (hidden) rankings, but probably still below Hope. Their D3 record would be 19-4 (.826) and the best possible SOS is probably still 0.495 or so. That's not going to demand a high seed.

I'm not sure whether "highly unlikely" or "very very unlikely" is worse, but I get the picture. Thanks FDF and KS for educating me on this--I won't get my h*pes up. 

[John Gleich]

Obviously a long way to go with the league tournament still looming, but if Hope were able to win out you have to wonder if they might be looking at hosting.  Just for information, the men's teams get preference this year for hosting the first 2 weekends.

In our neck of the woods I think these 4 schools are nearly locks to host a pod
Stevens Point
Illinois Wesleyan
Washington
Wooster

Next likely to host
St. Thomas

Looks to me like we'll need 6 hosts in this part of the country.  One of these 4 could host and rankings suggest they are in the ballpark. 
St. Norbert
Hope
Whitewater
Mt. Union

I've got to think that Whitewater is ahead of St. Thomas... WW is #2 in the West and UST is #3.

WW is 3-1 vRRO, UST is 2-2.

WW SOS is .572, UST is .521.


Common opponents: UWSP (WW 1-1, UST 0-1), Augsburg (WW 1-0, UST 2-0), River Falls (WW 2-0, UST 1-0)   - WW has the hand up here, too, beating UWSP once where UST did not.


Whitewater also has wins vs St. Norbert and Hope, so I'd think that the hosting nod (all other things being equal, which they're not) would go to Whitewater.



Stevens Point is probably in line for a first round bye if they win out.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I did a little more thinking on MIAA MVP since I briefly posted on the topic a couple of weeks ago.  I used the assumption that only regular season conference games are considered. 

First, some good players I didn't consider:
--Mark Ghafari--missed 3 games, didn't play for a contending team, and didn't post the eye popping numbers that he did in the non conference games
--Blake Krum--Missed 1 game, didn't play for a contending team, and his rate stats are not excellent
--Tyler Good--Missed 2 games, didn't play for top two team. Solid season, but I don't think anyone would talk MVP for him.

So, here are the players I did take a look at:  primarily, Tyler Kruis, Jordan Brink, Alex Eidson, DJ Beckman, and Ben Gardner.  I did throw Adam Peters and Nate Van Arendonk in the mix just for kicks, but don't believe there to be a serious MVP argument for either. 

One stat I enjoy personally is totalling up shooting percentages for FG/3 pt/FT, the type of stat that guys like Larry Bird or Steve Nash excel at.  A great number is 1.800 (could be achieved by shooting .500/.400/.900).  Here's how my seven MVP candidates rank:

1.  Tyler Kruis 1.953 (skewed by a .600 rate on triples on a relatively small sample size, but still an incredible total number)
2.  DJ Beckman 1.906
3.  Jordan Brink 1.813
4.  Alex Eidson 1.791
5.  Adam Peters 1.563
6.  Ben Gardner 1.562
7.  Nate Van Arendonk 1.374 (skewed by not taking any 3's)

I also looked at the simplistic player efficiency rank: (points + reb + ast +blk + stl - missed FG - missed FT - TO)/games.  The seven candidates:

1.  Tyler Kruis 18.8
2.  DJ Beckman 17.9
3.  Adam Peters 16.2
4 (tie).  Alex Edison 15.4
4 (tie).  Jordan Brink 15.4
6.  Nate Van Arendonk 14.7
7.  Ben Gardner 14.2

So, I think there is a real case that can be made for Tyler Kruis as our 2013-14 MVP.  I don't think Beckman would get consideration despite what's turned into an excellent season--his was not a clearly statistically dominant performance (e.g. Mike McClary or Ian Jackson), and he played for a 2nd tier team.  I would consider Eidson for MVP if you throw a lot of weight to his domination in the two wins over Calvin that essentially decided the regular season title.  Watching games and not just stat sheets, Gardner should have some support as the best floor general and generally disruptive defensive force that he is.  Also, if there tends to be a voter bias to seniors, Kruis would have the edge over Brink, Eidson, Gardner, etc. And of course there is still one game remaining.  Bottom line, at this point, I'd vote Kruis first and Eidson second.

I'd be interested to hear others' opinions or if anyone thinks I missed anyone that should be included in this discussion.

Interesting stuff, and as stats typically do, it reflects the offensive side of the game for these guys well.  Big part of when the coaches are voting for this I believe has to be how these guys affected their team defensively when they played one another.  And I do believe it's going to be a more difficult vote this year than it has in some other years.

[sac]

I really have no idea who the MVP will be.  But I'm  very impressed that Soph. DJ Beckman is leading the league in scoring with one game to go.

Last Soph. to do that was Anthony Jones, Alma in 2005.

[sac]

Obviously a long way to go with the league tournament still looming, but if Hope were able to win out you have to wonder if they might be looking at hosting.  Just for information, the men's teams get preference this year for hosting the first 2 weekends.

In our neck of the woods I think these 4 schools are nearly locks to host a pod
Stevens Point
Illinois Wesleyan
Washington
Wooster

Next likely to host
St. Thomas

Looks to me like we'll need 6 hosts in this part of the country.  One of these 4 could host and rankings suggest they are in the ballpark. 
St. Norbert
Hope
Whitewater
Mt. Union

I've got to think that Whitewater is ahead of St. Thomas... WW is #2 in the West and UST is #3.

WW is 3-1 vRRO, UST is 2-2.

WW SOS is .572, UST is .521.


Common opponents: UWSP (WW 1-1, UST 0-1), Augsburg (WW 1-0, UST 2-0), River Falls (WW 2-0, UST 1-0)   - WW has the hand up here, too, beating UWSP once where UST did not.


Whitewater also has wins vs St. Norbert and Hope, so I'd think that the hosting nod (all other things being equal, which they're not) would go to Whitewater.



Stevens Point is probably in line for a first round bye if they win out.

I was kind of assuming WW lost in the WIAC tournament with St. Thomas winning out.  I don't know the history of Pool C's being awarded 'pods', I was kind of assuming they would pick St. Thomas over WW based on that.

Maybe its better to say, two of these five may potentially host after the four locks of UWSP, IWU, WashU, Wooster:

Whitewater
St. Thomas
St. Norbert
Mt. Union
Hope

Out of that group I might say Hope would be least likely to host.  If it was based solely on merit I don't think Hope would be in position to host at all.  But its not solely merit as other factors like geography come into play.   All good fun to speculate but I think I'll be happy just to see Hope's name in the tournament.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't think there's a tendency to avoid giving Pool C teams first-weekend hosting. Once in the 48-team tournament, every team that got a first-round bye was a Pool C team, and in the bigger tournament those are the same teams that would be hosting the first weekend pods.

[wiz]

This MVP talk is always interesting every year and, through my maroon and gold tinted glasses, I would agree that Tyler Kruis is the clear choice this year.  And, yes, we too often look at offensive statistics in considering a choice.  One other factor that could be an indicator is how well the candidates team performs when that individual misses a game.  If their level of play drops considerably during the absence of that single player, it may indicate just how valuable that player is.  I think of Kalamazoo's performance without Mark Ghafari and Calvin's performance against Claremont Mudd Scrips and the first Hope game while Tyler Kruis was under the weather.  I am sure there are others and agree with sac, I have no idea.

[pointlem]

As a Hope fan, I'm also willing to give the nod to Tyler Kruis.  His senior status will also help his chances.  DJ Beckman (who should be at Hope, rather than scoring 25 against Hope!) will have two more years to accrue honors.

[oldknight]

A rather ho-hum 83-63 win for Calvin at VNA against an overmatched Olivet squad, though the hard-working Comets made the game a little closer than the final score indicated. Not much to remark on except the exceptional four minute stretch for Jordan Daley in the second half when he scored precisely half his game high 22 points. It was a solid floor game for Daley who went 8-12 shooting with 5 rebounds, one block, 2 steals, 7 assists and 0 turnovers.

Now, if he can match that performance against H#*(, it would be even more impressive.

No doubt. Especially the zero turnover line.

As a Hope fan, I'm also willing to give the nod to Tyler Kruis.  His senior status will also help his chances.  DJ Beckman (who should be at Hope, rather than scoring 25 against Hope!) will have two more years to accrue honors.

I agree that Kruis is the most likely choice for MVP. It's really tough to win that award if you're not at least a junior. I went through the MIAA website list and over the last 50+ years the only players I could identify who were named MVP while a sophomore were Jeremy Veenstra, Mark Veenstra (who also won as a freshmen) and Ray Ritsema (in 1958). Eidson has had a nice year and been important to Hope's success but I think NVA will get more votes for the award. I like Beckman a ton but when you play for a team that finishes seventh sixth, you basically have no shot at being named MVP.

[wwjjdd]

A rather ho-hum 83-63 win for Calvin at VNA against an overmatched Olivet squad, though the hard-working Comets made the game a little closer than the final score indicated. Not much to remark on except the exceptional four minute stretch for Jordan Daley in the second half when he scored precisely half his game high 22 points. It was a solid floor game for Daley who went 8-12 shooting with 5 rebounds, one block, 2 steals, 7 assists and 0 turnovers.

Now, if he can match that performance against H#*(, it would be even more impressive.

No doubt. Especially the zero turnover line.

As a Hope fan, I'm also willing to give the nod to Tyler Kruis.  His senior status will also help his chances.  DJ Beckman (who should be at Hope, rather than scoring 25 against Hope!) will have two more years to accrue honors.

I agree that Kruis is the most likely choice for MVP. It's really tough to win that award if you're not at least a junior. I went through the MIAA website list and over the last 50+ years the only players I could identify who were named MVP while a sophomore were Jeremy Veenstra, Mark Veenstra (who also won as a freshmen) and Ray Ritsema (in 1958). Eidson has had a nice year and been important to Hope's success but I think NVA will get more votes for the award. I like Beckman a ton but when you play for a team that finishes seventh, you basically have no shot at being named MVP.

Let's not forget, Hank Sauer, Ernie Banks (2), and Andre Dawson, all of whom won while playing for a 2nd Division team.  (Guess which one)

[oldknight]

A rather ho-hum 83-63 win for Calvin at VNA against an overmatched Olivet squad, though the hard-working Comets made the game a little closer than the final score indicated. Not much to remark on except the exceptional four minute stretch for Jordan Daley in the second half when he scored precisely half his game high 22 points. It was a solid floor game for Daley who went 8-12 shooting with 5 rebounds, one block, 2 steals, 7 assists and 0 turnovers.

Now, if he can match that performance against H#*(, it would be even more impressive.

No doubt. Especially the zero turnover line.

As a Hope fan, I'm also willing to give the nod to Tyler Kruis.  His senior status will also help his chances.  DJ Beckman (who should be at Hope, rather than scoring 25 against Hope!) will have two more years to accrue honors.

I agree that Kruis is the most likely choice for MVP. It's really tough to win that award if you're not at least a junior. I went through the MIAA website list and over the last 50+ years the only players I could identify who were named MVP while a sophomore were Jeremy Veenstra, Mark Veenstra (who also won as a freshmen) and Ray Ritsema (in 1958). Eidson has had a nice year and been important to Hope's success but I think NVA will get more votes for the award. I like Beckman a ton but when you play for a team that finishes seventh, you basically have no shot at being named MVP.

Let's not forget, Hank Sauer, Ernie Banks (2), and Andre Dawson, all of whom won while playing for a 2nd Division team.  (Guess which one)

I was reminded by one observant board poster that one thing you have to remember when trying to decide on the MVP is that only first-team selections are eligible for MVP honors. First-team honors are voted first. It's not that the MVP is an automatic first-team selection.

[wiz]

12 minutes left but the hay has been in the barn quite awhile already.

[KnightSlappy]

Congrats to the Knights on back-to-back 20 win seasons.