MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ziggy]

It didn't take long for a new, and far worse, story to rock the DIII world: http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Grand-Jury-Hands-Up-Sealed-Indictment-In-Garrett-Phillips-Case-259418891.html

[MaroonKnighty]

4 tweets from Holland Sentinel reporter Michael Applegate


Michael Appelgate ‏@mappelgate206 20m
Former Hope bball coach Glenn Van Wieren "I'm very sorry that this has happened to Matt and Hope college... (1/3)

"He was everything I wanted in an assistant and when he became head coach I was very excited... (2/3)

This is something they decided between the two of them (Hope & Matt Neil)." (3/3) #Hopebasketball

Van Wieren was adamant he has no idea why Neil left, and said that information deserves to be private. #Hopebasketball

If GVW has no idea what is going on, how does he know that the information is of a nature that needs to be private? 

My conclusion is that this was initiated by the college and not Coach Neil.  When an employee/coach resigns on their own, the communication always sounds very different that this.  Also, it seems that there was nothing so serious/scandalous that it couldn't wait until the academic year and commencement were complete before making this move. I have no idea what Coach Neil's relationship with President Knapp is like, but this is quite coincidental with the conclusion of the president's first year on campus.  Obviously at a place like Hope the men's BB coach is a high profile position that represents the school to the school's constituents and needs to be on the same page with the president and board.  The final three games of the MN era end up being three embarrassments for Hope, all at DeVos.  At a high profile D1 school this may be a factor for a forced resignation of the coach, but I can't imagine that the team's performance had anything to do with it.  Overall, his four years at the helm were quite successful in the W-L column and in tourney bids.  On the surface to me as a casual fan, I would say that MN has represented Hope very well and I wish him well both personally and with any future coaching career.

This article makes it sound like GVW knows more than he's leading us to believe.
http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2014/05/basketball_coach_matt_neil_wil.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

[northb]

Perhaps it's an entirely personal matter to Coach Neil and nobody else's darn business?  Under those circumstances I could easily see the college, coach and players agreeing not to comment.  And I would respect them for it.

Then make that clear--"This is a personal matter and we would ask others to respect that."  Zero information for what is a public position simply makes all possibilities float around.

[Roundball999]

Perhaps it's an entirely personal matter to Coach Neil and nobody else's darn business?  Under those circumstances I could easily see the college, coach and players agreeing not to comment.  And I would respect them for it.

Then make that clear--"This is a personal matter and we would ask others to respect that."  Zero information for what is a public position simply makes all possibilities float around.

Agreed, that would have been the preferred approach for a personal matter.

Now, more quotes in M-Live from GVW:  "Matt conversed over time with Hope and it's not about his character at all," Van Wieren said. "And after they conversed and talked and negotiated, it was felt on both sides that after four years they should part ways."

And: "It is a college with great integrity and a person with great integrity," he said. "It's unfortunate that's the way it went, but that's the way it is. They decided to go their own way and move on."

So it sure sounds like this is just a situation where "it just didn't work out".  A number of the players were not happy under MN, this is typical almost everywhere, but maybe more than usual here.  I'm guessing that was the root cause or at least major contributing factor.

[northb]

Perhaps it's an entirely personal matter to Coach Neil and nobody else's darn business?  Under those circumstances I could easily see the college, coach and players agreeing not to comment.  And I would respect them for it.

Then make that clear--"This is a personal matter and we would ask others to respect that."  Zero information for what is a public position simply makes all possibilities float around.

Agreed, that would have been the preferred approach for a personal matter.

Now, more quotes in M-Live from GVW:  "Matt conversed over time with Hope and it's not about his character at all," Van Wieren said. "And after they conversed and talked and negotiated, it was felt on both sides that after four years they should part ways."

And: "It is a college with great integrity and a person with great integrity," he said. "It's unfortunate that's the way it went, but that's the way it is. They decided to go their own way and move on."

So it sure sounds like this is just a situation where "it just didn't work out".  A number of the players were not happy under MN, this is typical almost everywhere, but maybe more than usual here.  I'm guessing that was the root cause or at least major contributing factor.

That is what is confusing to me about this situation.  A coach and an institution with great integrity, both know each other inside and out going in.  There are always some kids who are dissatisfied, but they still played hard for him from start to finish, and he had a great record, with great results against the rival team (grrrr).  It just does not add up for me, but maybe I am too far removed to see the team morale issue.

[wiz]

Perhaps it's an entirely personal matter to Coach Neil and nobody else's darn business?  Under those circumstances I could easily see the college, coach and players agreeing not to comment.  And I would respect them for it.

Then make that clear--"This is a personal matter and we would ask others to respect that."  Zero information for what is a public position simply makes all possibilities float around.

Agreed, that would have been the preferred approach for a personal matter.

Now, more quotes in M-Live from GVW:  "Matt conversed over time with Hope and it's not about his character at all," Van Wieren said. "And after they conversed and talked and negotiated, it was felt on both sides that after four years they should part ways."

And: "It is a college with great integrity and a person with great integrity," he said. "It's unfortunate that's the way it went, but that's the way it is. They decided to go their own way and move on."

So it sure sounds like this is just a situation where "it just didn't work out".  A number of the players were not happy under MN, this is typical almost everywhere, but maybe more than usual here.  I'm guessing that was the root cause or at least major contributing factor.

That is what is confusing to me about this situation.  A coach and an institution with great integrity, both know each other inside and out going in.  There are always some kids who are dissatisfied, but they still played hard for him from start to finish, and he had a great record, with great results against the rival team (grrrr).  It just does not add up for me, but maybe I am too far removed to see the team morale issue.

This is not about won/loss records, negotiations about a coaching or teaching contract, or a devastating loss to a rivalry school.  Much more serious than that and it is why he was fired, wiped from the website, and why the next day, in the Holland
Sentinel, GVW began to walk back his comments about the integrity timeline.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140515/SPORTS/140519308/10971/SPORTS

[Grutte Dirk]

Could it be as simple as an academic or HR issue?
As faculty, maybe Neil was asked to pursue a doctorate or take on additional, non-basketball related duties and they agreed to disagree.

[wiz]

Could it be as simple as an academic or HR issue?
As faculty, maybe Neil was asked to pursue a doctorate or take on additional, non-basketball related duties and they agreed to disagree.

Nope.

[sac]

This is not about won/loss records, negotiations about a coaching or teaching contract, or a devastating loss to a rivalry school.  Much more serious than that and it is why he was fired, wiped from the website, and why the next day, in the Holland
Sentinel, GVW began to walk back his comments about the integrity timeline.
http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140515/SPORTS/140519308/10971/SPORTS

An actual  timeline of the quotes shows GVW isn't backtracking on anything.

Both Mlive and HollandSentinel articles quoted Glenn VanWieren thusly.......

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2014/05/basketball_coach_matt_neil_wil.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

http://www.hollandsentinel.com/article/20140515/SPORTS/140519308/10971/SPORTS

Mlive article on May 15, 2014 at 3:35 PM, updated May 15, 2014 at 4:14 PM
"He will get through it," said Van Wieren, Hope's all-time winningest coach. "It's tough. It's not easy. There are a lot of people who love him. There are former players and a lot of people who know Matt that are sorry about what has happened, and are offering great support for him."

"Matt conversed over time with Hope and it's not about his character at all," Van Wieren said. "And after they conversed and talked and negotiated, it was felt on both sides that after four years they should part ways.

"I was not privy to the conversation and I did not ask Matt that. All I did was love him and that's what I will continue to do. He is a great friend. Matt is going to be OK. He's a man of great faith and great integrity

"It is a college with great integrity and a person with great integrity," he said. "It's unfortunate that's the way it went, but that's the way it is. They decided to go their own way and move on."

Holland Sentinel article  Posted May. 15, 2014 @ 5:43 pm

"I'm very sorry that this has happened to Matt and Hope College," Van Wieren said by phone Thursday. "When we worked together he was a strong coach and a man of faith. He was everything I wanted in an assistant and when he became head coach, I was very excited."




I don't  think you can conclude GVW is backtracking on anything.  Michael Appelgate tweeted the quote he used in his article above at 11:36am that same morning in these consecutive tweets.

Michael Appelgate ‏@mappelgate206 May 15

Former Hope bball coach Glenn Van Wieren "I'm very sorry that this has happened to Matt and Hope college... (1/3)

11:36 AM - 15 May 2014 · Details


Michael Appelgate ‏@mappelgate206 May 15

"He was everything I wanted in an assistant and when he became head coach I was very excited... (2/3)

11:36 AM - 15 May 2014 · Detail



I just don't think he got the same quotes from GVW or chose not to use the ones Mlive used.  These are two articles written by two different people at different times.

I state this knowing full well none of this looks good for Matt Neil or the college.

[wiz]

Sac, perhaps GVW finally learned what some of the rest of us, but apparently not all of us, already know.  But, it will unfold soon so let's give it a rest for a while. 
In other late breaking news, Albion got a couple more recruits to day and Hargraves picked up a 5'2" pg in an effort to help make the other players think they are taller.  Understand Terry Smith is the front runner in Hope's coaching search.  Lots happening today.

[sac]

Sac, perhaps GVW finally learned what some of the rest of us, but apparently not all of us, already know.  But, it will unfold soon so let's give it a rest for a while. 
In other late breaking news, Albion got a couple more recruits to day and Hargraves picked up a 5'2" pg in an effort to help make the other players think they are taller.  Understand Terry Smith is the front runner in Hope's coaching search.  Lots happening today.

Well I don't really care what you think you know or don't know, or what you think I do know or don't know, or that you feel it necessary to mock other posts I've made.  Your conclusion about GVW changing his support or opinion of Matt is asinine.   

[wiz]

In other news: http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2014/05/calvins_highest_athletics_awar.html  

[hoopdreams]

For an institution to completely sever ties with a man who committed more than half is life to......have a gag order blanketed over everyone remotely close, speaks volumes to the potential severity of the issue. My uneducated guess, with nothing to support it is recruiting violations....and I pray it's nothing more

For those who are taking anything GVW says with a grain of salt, I am still waiting to hear why he retired because that was never accurately described through the media either...there is more ( this a know from a prominent figure in Holland) I actually feel bad for GVW on this one, he simply should have said "no comment"

And, the lengthy process to fill his void

And, Snugg's utter failure of a senior year

And, Bunn's disappearance from the roster midway through a season

I truly hope for the Neil family, Hope College and everyone affiliated with Hope that it was simply an inability to work together or a series of minor infractions but it sure seems deeper.  History tells me that unless the news utilizes the Freedom of Information Act or something, we will never know

[Pat Coleman]

Hope is not a government institution, so I don't think a FOIA request would be relevant.

[Roundball999]

For an institution to completely sever ties with a man who committed more than half is life to......have a gag order blanketed over everyone remotely close, speaks volumes to the potential severity of the issue. My uneducated guess, with nothing to support it is recruiting violations....and I pray it's nothing more

For those who are taking anything GVW says with a grain of salt, I am still waiting to hear why he retired because that was never accurately described through the media either...there is more ( this a know from a prominent figure in Holland) I actually feel bad for GVW on this one, he simply should have said "no comment"

And, the lengthy process to fill his void

And, Snugg's utter failure of a senior year

And, Bunn's disappearance from the roster midway through a season

I truly hope for the Neil family, Hope College and everyone affiliated with Hope that it was simply an inability to work together or a series of minor infractions but it sure seems deeper.  History tells me that unless the news utilizes the Freedom of Information Act or something, we will never know

FIA has nothing to do with a private college, it only applies to information controlled by the federal government.  Some states and municipalities have their own "sunshine laws" or similar but again wouldn't apply to a private college.

Not much in the way of restrictions for recruiting at the D3 level.  Unlimited calls, emails, contacts etc.. One paid official visit is allowed and unlimited unofficial visits allowed. No athletic scholarships and any aid would come through the financial aid office.  This is not big time D1 where there is lots of money floating around through booster clubs.  Having known a number of players, I just don't see the recruiting violation angle but like you I don't know one way or another.  Improper contact with an athlete already at a 4 year NCAA or NAIA institution is not permitted, I've always thought that would be a tough call (athlete a D3 coach recruited in high school decides to go D2 or D1, later decides doesn't like it, contacts the D3 coach on possibilities of making a move... tough call).  Have known a number of players, I just don't see recruiting as leading to this.

I see implications of other problems in prior posts, I know nothing about that, but could it be that "it just didn't work out" is shocking enough after a 30 year relationship for the parties to clam up?