MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[HopeConvert]

Out of the 1000's of coaches in this country, their two options are one with ZERO "Head" coaching experience and the other option is someone with ZERO college coaching experience....

For those who will say he was the Head JV coach, there is nothing remotely comparable to being the Head varsity, leader of a program, voice to the media, etc...

Hope ain't Kentucky.

Assuming your information is correct, I don't see anything in what you've said that ought necessarily to create concern. The odds of getting an established head coach with all the right credentials and a winning track record at this stage of the game are most long, to say the least.

[realist]

Out of the 1000's of coaches in this country, their two options are one with ZERO "Head" coaching experience and the other option is someone with ZERO college coaching experience....

For those who will say he was the Head JV coach, there is nothing remotely comparable to being the Head varsity, leader of a program, voice to the media, etc...

Hope ain't Kentucky.

Assuming your information is correct, I don't see anything in what you've said that ought necessarily to create concern. The odds of getting an established head coach with all the right credentials and a winning track record at this stage of the game are most long, to say the least.

Point well made.  However, that doesn't mean that the expectations for the new coach aren't going to be considerably higher than for a guy like Sam H. when he took the reins up at Alma.
Are Hope fans going to be patient while an inexperienced coach learns how to handle the pressure and the job?  Hope isn't Alma or Olivet either.

One would think that some expereienced coaches with winning records at smaller schools would jump at the chance to coach a premier D3  program like Hope.

[sac]

Kevin VandeStreak is the only coach in the MIAA who came into his current position with previous college head coaching experience.  If I'm not mistaken, you have to go back to the Ed Douma hire at Calvin in the 80's to find the other MIAA hire with college head coaching experience.  I might be missing a couple in there at Alma or Olivet that I'm not remembering right.


Glenn VanWieren didn't, Matt Neil didn't.  It really isn't that unusual.

[sac]

Hope ain't Kentucky.

small blessings

[KnightSlappy]

Kevin VandeStreak is the only coach in the MIAA who came into his current position with previous college head coaching experience.

And 2.5 yeas ago this board was talking about how he had run the Calvin program into the ground. Best not go that route.

[realist]

Kevin VandeStreak is the only coach in the MIAA who came into his current position with previous college head coaching experience.  If I'm not mistaken, you have to go back to the Ed Douma hire at Calvin in the 80's to find the other MIAA hire with college head coaching experience.  I might be missing a couple in there at Alma or Olivet that I'm not remembering right.


Glenn VanWieren didn't, Matt Neil didn't.  It really isn't that unusual.

You get what you pay for.  With the exception of Hope and Calvin few MIAA schools with inexperienced coaches strike fear or terror in the hearts of most quality programs.  For example: 
Wheaton and Elmhurst have 9 games this fall scheduled against MIAA schools, and all 8 MIAA schools are involved.  I really doubt those games are scheduled to build CCIW SOS.

Of all the inexperienced coaches hired how many have posted consistent winning records their first few years?  MN is really the exception rather than the rule, and with all MN's years in the Hope system he can hardly be classified as inexperienced.

How many of the UW or CCIW schools have inexperienced coaches?

Every fall the MIAA struggles to win non conference games, and perhaps part of the reason is due to inexperienced coaching.

[sac]

How many of the UW or CCIW schools have inexperienced coaches?

(I guess maybe "inexperienced" needs to be qualified but none of these guys had been a college head coach. )

Ron Rose at IWU
Bob Semling at UWSP
Pat Miller at UWW


They seem to have done OK.

[HopeConvert]

It seems reasonable to think that, just as DIII basketball schools don't get the best players, neither are they going to get the best coaches. This is particularly true for places such as Hope or Calvin which, unlike any other MIAA (and most DIII) school(s), have hiring restrictions related to their institutional mission.

On the other hand, they do get the best faculty, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

[SBell]

It seems reasonable to think that, just as DIII basketball schools don't get the best players, neither are they going to get the best coaches. This is particularly true for places such as Hope or Calvin which, unlike any other MIAA (and most DIII) school(s), have hiring restrictions related to their institutional mission.

On the other hand, they do get the best faculty, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

Working with college coaches at every level, can tell you from my experience that's just not true at all. The best players sort themselves out through head-to-head competition. It's how good you are. Coaching is largely who you know. And then there are coaches at small schools who just don't want to deal with the b.s. and the extreme lifestyle of big-time coaching.

[HopeConvert]

It seems reasonable to think that, just as DIII basketball schools don't get the best players, neither are they going to get the best coaches. This is particularly true for places such as Hope or Calvin which, unlike any other MIAA (and most DIII) school(s), have hiring restrictions related to their institutional mission.

On the other hand, they do get the best faculty, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

Working with college coaches at every level, can tell you from my experience that's just not true at all. The best players sort themselves out through head-to-head competition. It's how good you are. Coaching is largely who you know. And then there are coaches at small schools who just don't want to deal with the b.s. and the extreme lifestyle of big-time coaching.

I'd be happy to be wrong about that.

[realist]

How many of the UW or CCIW schools have inexperienced coaches?

(I guess maybe "inexperienced" needs to be qualified but none of these guys had been a college head coach. )

Ron Rose at IWU
Bob Semling at UWSP
Pat Miller at UWW


They seem to have done OK.

I agree, and "inexperienced" has meanings other than simply lacking head coaching experience.
Personally I would classify most people who only played, and worked under one mentor at one school as "inexperienced" in that they lacked experiences that would allow them to compare and contrast coaching styles and methods.  That said I don't think lacking either of them predicts success or failure.  At most I think it may just play a role in determing how long and how steep the learning curve may be.   
7 of the 8 MIAA coaches lacking prior head coaching experience just seems like a high percentage to me, and I doubt the percentage is that high in the more highly regarded conferences.   Guys like Sam Hargraves and Brooks Miller, (and the WIAC CCIW coaches you referenced) while lacking prior head coaching experience, negate some of that by having exposure to multiple schools, styles, coaches, and mentors.
MN had great results as a head coach, and he did it without head coaching experience or much exposure outside of Hope, but it seems the wheels for some reason came off the wagon. 
Eddie D. had both head coaching experience, and had exposure to a number of schools, systems and mentors, and yes, the wheels came off that wagon as well.

I think we all would agree that Hope's schedule for this fall counts as brutal for even an experienced coach, and will be more so for a rookie in the head coaching job at Hope.

[sac]

Collectively the MIAA currently has a very young group of coaches.  Not even 10 years ago, it had a very veteran group of coaches with VanWieren, Turner and Riley all still plying the sidelines. 

There was a point in the mid 90's when every MIAA school had a coach who had been there for 10 years or more.

[sac]

This is a list of the MIAA coaches hired and their previous experience lifted from their bios.

Adrian:  Mark White--approx. 10 years hs head coach
Albion:  Jody May--12 yrs asst coach Albion, 4 yrs asst Hanover, Bluffton
Alma:  Sam Hargraves--12 yrs asst coach Calvin, Hillsdale, Northwood, Lawrence, Dominican
Calvin:  Kevin VandeStreak--6 yrs hc at Sioux Falls College, 2 yrs hc high school, 6 yr has asst. hs
Hope:
Kalamazoo:  Eric Dugal--6 yrs asst  Manchester, Platteville
Olivet:  Chris Coles--5 yrs asst Saginaw Valley St, 17 years high school hc
Trine:  Brooks Miller--2 yrs asst South Plaines, 2 yrs grad asst Texas Tech, 3 yr asst Hillsdale

These 7 schools hired 2 men with more than 15 years of coaching experience

Just for comparison, here are the CCIW coaches and their previous experience.  Only 2 of these 8 coaches had less that 15 years of some kind of coaching experience prior to being hired.  Ron Rose and Matt Nadelhoffer

Augustana: Grey Giovanine--6yr hc at Lamar--10 yr asst coach at Wichita State, Rice, Oral Roberts, Valparaiso, Central Missouri
Carthage:  Bosko Djurikovic--hc at North Park---10 yr asst at North Park
Elmhurst:  John Baines---3 yr hc at St. Francis--10 yr asst at Elmhurst--2 yrs high school hc
IWU:  Ron Rose--9 yr hs coach--2 yr asst Olivet Nazarene
Millikin:  Matt Nadelhoffer--9 yrs hc Eastern Univ.
North Central:  Todd Raridon--15 yrs hc at Neb. Wesleyan--9yrs asst at Neb. Wesleyan
North Park: Tom Slyder--8 yrs hc at Anderson--9 yrs asst at Anderson
Wheaton:  Mark Schauer--7 yrs hc at Gordan--2 yrs hc at Eastern--8 yrs asst at Wheaton

[OnlyHope]

Rumor has it that interviews are starting for Hope's new coach. 

[devossed]

Out of the 1000's of coaches in this country, their two options are one with ZERO "Head" coaching experience and the other option is someone with ZERO college coaching experience....

For those who will say he was the Head JV coach, there is nothing remotely comparable to being the Head varsity, leader of a program, voice to the media, etc...

Hope ain't Kentucky.

Assuming your information is correct, I don't see anything in what you've said that ought necessarily to create concern. The odds of getting an established head coach with all the right credentials and a winning track record at this stage of the game are most long, to say the least.

It seems reasonable to think that, just as DIII basketball schools don't get the best players, neither are they going to get the best coaches. This is particularly true for places such as Hope or Calvin which, unlike any other MIAA (and most DIII) school(s), have hiring restrictions related to their institutional mission.

On the other hand, they do get the best faculty, so they have that going for them, which is nice.

The problem is NOT that Hope can't attract top-level interest for this position. It is that Hope notoriously doesn't pay too well (faculty or staff). I remember hearing about more than a few "national" candidates who dropped out 4 years ago when they found out how low the pay was AND they'd have to teach. I'd imagine it to be very similar this time.

If the rumors are true (of the 2 names most commonly floated around) - yes, neither one of them has "head coaching at the college level" experience, but either one of them would be a good choice/fit to lead the program in a new direction. Hope will be just fine if either is selected.