MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[KnightSlappy]

One of these players was the heavy favorite to be league MVP.  What was a foregone conclusion is a pretty strong race and I didn't even include anyone from Hope here.

Player A:   109 points, 45%FG, 38% 3FG, 36 rbs, 16 assts, 14 to's, 11 steals

Player B:   144 points, 48%FG, 35% 3FG, 22 rbs, 14 assts, 12 to's, 13 steals

Player C:   121 points, 51%FG, 22% 3FG, 51 rbs,  6 assts,  12 to's, 11 steals

I vote player C. The 51 rbs is why.

Then I went and looked to see each player was. Oddly enough, the one I'd vote for 3rd was the aforementioned "forgone conclusion"...

Player D: 99 points, 62% FG, NA 3FG, 55 rbs, 13 assts, 13 to's, 5 steals

Might get my vote before player A...

I think the key for Trine the second time through the league will be whether or not they can afford to run the entirety of the offense through Dixon, Good, and Holmquist. Those three guys have each played more than 80% of the available minutes for Trine during conference play, and they've combined to take 75% of the team's shots (86% of the shots while they're on the floor). Can they continue to carry that load while remaining so efficient?

I don't know the answer to this, but is there an optimal amount of minutes per game for a player (making allowances for differences in players, such as size, general fitness, and so forth)? Seems to me that when you're dealing with 20 year olds an average of five more minutes a game just isn't going to matter that much. These kids are energizer bunnies. I find it hard to believe that the Trine players are going to be that much more worn out than players on other teams, especially since we don't know much about their rest and recovery practices.

If there are data on playing time thresholds and their relation to performance and efficiency, I'd be interested in seeing them. In the meantime, I don't think I'd be too worried about their minutes.

I'm not worried about minute totals, I'm worried (well, I'm not worried) about opponents simply trying to take these three out of the game defensively. It's hard to do that with three guys, I understand, but is anyone else on that team prepared to shoot?

[wiz]

One of these players was the heavy favorite to be league MVP.  What was a foregone conclusion is a pretty strong race and I didn't even include anyone from Hope here.

Player A:   109 points, 45%FG, 38% 3FG, 36 rbs, 16 assts, 14 to's, 11 steals

Player B:   144 points, 48%FG, 35% 3FG, 22 rbs, 14 assts, 12 to's, 13 steals

Player C:   121 points, 51%FG, 22% 3FG, 51 rbs,  6 assts,  12 to's, 11 steals

I vote player C. The 51 rbs is why.

Then I went and looked to see each player was. Oddly enough, the one I'd vote for 3rd was the aforementioned "forgone conclusion"...

Player D: 99 points, 62% FG, NA 3FG, 55 rbs, 13 assts, 13 to's, 5 steals

Might get my vote before player A...

I think the key for Trine the second time through the league will be whether or not they can afford to run the entirety of the offense through Dixon, Good, and Holmquist. Those three guys have each played more than 80% of the available minutes for Trine during conference play, and they've combined to take 75% of the team's shots (86% of the shots while they're on the floor). Can they continue to carry that load while remaining so efficient?

I don't know the answer to this, but is there an optimal amount of minutes per game for a player (making allowances for differences in players, such as size, general fitness, and so forth)? Seems to me that when you're dealing with 20 year olds an average of five more minutes a game just isn't going to matter that much. These kids are energizer bunnies. I find it hard to believe that the Trine players are going to be that much more worn out than players on other teams, especially since we don't know much about their rest and recovery practices.

If there are data on playing time thresholds and their relation to performance and efficiency, I'd be interested in seeing them. In the meantime, I don't think I'd be too worried about their minutes.

I'm not worried about minute totals, I'm worried (well, I'm not worried) about opponents simply trying to take these three out of the game defensively. It's hard to do that with three guys, I understand, but is anyone else on that team prepared to shoot?

If they are playing that many minutes a game and don't have much of a bench, perhaps a team with a long bench should throw the Grinnell offense at them and send in waves of fresh legs every 5 minutes and just run them out of the building.  KVS did it before with his championship 2000 team.

[sac]

I think we questioned whether some recent Albion and Adrian teams have worn down by years end in recent years.

Trine was almost more thin last year, yet they played their best basketball the last two weeks of the year.

[Gregory Sager]

I don't know the answer to this, but is there an optimal amount of minutes per game for a player (making allowances for differences in players, such as size, general fitness, and so forth)?

Playing style has a lot to do with it as well. And that doesn't necessarily mean that players for teams that play uptempo will tire more than players that play the same number of minutes in a slower style, either. This may come as a surprise to some fans, but a physical style of play is often described by players and coaches as more tiring than a running style, because body contact -- especially hard, continual body contact -- depletes energy as much, if not more, than running does.

[wiz]

I don't know the answer to this, but is there an optimal amount of minutes per game for a player (making allowances for differences in players, such as size, general fitness, and so forth)?

Playing style has a lot to do with it as well. And that doesn't necessarily mean that players for teams that play uptempo will tire more than players that play the same number of minutes in a slower style, either. This may come as a surprise to some fans, but a physical style of play is often described by players and coaches as more tiring than a running style, because body contact -- especially hard, continual body contact -- depletes energy as much, if not more, than running does.

Strong arguments both ways.  But 150 trips down the court must be tiring.  Grinnell focusses on turnover differential, something Trine understands quite well.  An interesting read on the subject http://www.math.grinnell.edu/~mooret/reports/HoopsProceedingsFinalDraft.pdf.

[calvinite]

**I think this was HopeConvert, not SAC. Sorry...

... Seems to me that when you're dealing with 20 year olds an average of five more minutes a game just isn't going to matter that much.

I agree. And, if Trine's starters start to show signs of fatigue, I'm guessing their coach will rest them a little more.

I do think that the more minutes a player gets, the more likely he'll get injured (the five minutes more per game not making much of a significant difference in terms of injuries is true for this argument, too, but multiple that by 4 players playing a heck of a lot and the fact that injuries would be a much bigger deal to a team like Trine with a short bench and it must be a consideration. Especially since I do think injuries are more likely -- even if minimally so -- to occur when players are more tired.

I just look at the injuries Calvin players have had this year and in the last several years, and that would be a concern for me (although I doubt I would play the starters less; I think Trine has as good a chance as any to win the MIAA this year). They are playing great, why change things up.

[sac]

Trine at Hope today.

Big key to the first game was turnovers, Hope had 17, Trine 8.  Allowed Trine 8 more FG attempts, really big in a low possession game.  I suspect the key player today might be Tyler Good for Trine as Hope will probably overplay Holmquist who had a big game last time.  Will Dixon also seems to be playing much better than he did in early January.

On Hope's end I really think its getting Alex Eidson to play inside and make Trine defend 3 in the paint area.  That didn't happen enough down in Angola.   Late game execution needs to better, turnovers in the last 5 minutes has cost Hope 3 chances to win games decided by 2, 3 and 3 points.  I expect a close one today.

[TUAngola]

I see there has been some great conversations on who would be the league MVP this year.  There are a lot of great players in the MIAA and at this point it could be any number of guys.

My vote for Trine MVP would be Jared Holmquist.  I've been to a half dozen or so Trine games this year and have a pretty good handle on Coach Miller's coaching philosophy, especially once the conference season started.  I was listening to Miller's interview on the Hoopsville podcast and I didn't realize he was at one time a graduate assistant for Bob Knight's Texas Tech team...pretty cool.  I am sure he learned a lot from Coach Knight and I don't doubt he uses some of his teachings on how he runs his team at Trine....motion offense, tough man to man defense, blocking out on the boards (very necessary as Trine is the smallest team in the conference by far) valuing every possession, taking care of the basketball.

Getting back to Holmquist, I feel that he would be my pick over Dixon and Good simply because Trine has no other options for post scoring.  I say "post" but really Jared is a 4 who by default has to play the 5 for us this year.  He can hit the 15-18 ft jumper consistently and will surprise you with a 3 if left unguarded.  When Holmquist goes out of the game he is pretty much irreplaceable.  Losing him would be a serious blow to Trine's chances in games.  As good as Dixon has been this year, the guard play is one of Trine's strengths and if Dixon were lost Trine could be able to plug in guys who would be serviceable, but certainly we have no one with his speed or ability to break a guy down one on one.  Good maybe isn't as consistent game in and game out as Holmquist and Dixon, but he is an athletic guy who can have monster games here and there.

I am not a fan of Trine's 6 man rotation, but it is what it is this year with Trine's inexperienced bench.  Playing guys a lot of minutes is the only chance Trine has in games.  Judicious use of timeouts, and Coach Miller uses them all, helps guys get a blow.  It will be very interesting the 2nd half of the conference season if the guys start to wear down, or they continue to be productive with heavy minutes.  But these are 20 yr old kids, they are in top notch shape, so should be able to run forever, right?

Good luck to everyone's favorite teams today.  I hope Trine can keep it close in Holland, but I fear revenge is going to rear it's ugly head today for the boys in blue.

[oldknight]

I'm alternating between watching Trine/Hope and Calvin/Alma. After board members spent the last several years shaking their heads at Hope's inability/unwillingness to invest in an internet video feed, I must say they've gotten it right in Holland. The video quality is outstanding even when going to full screen, and without any buffering. Alma's video isn't nearly as good as Hope's. Much muddier and frequent buffering. Better than nothing though.

Hope leads Trine at half 29-22. Trine looks like a very composed, veteran team but the Flying Dutchmen are beating up the Thunder badly on the boards. Calvin leads Alma 39-31 at half.

[northb]

In what is likely the most important conference game for Calvin in which they are not competing,* Hope is getting it done against Trine.  At the half, Hope is up 29-22.  Big conference implications

*That is, if you don't count Calvin's own game against Trine, in which they never really competed, either.   

[almcguirejr]

In what is likely the most important conference game for Calvin in which they are not competing,* Hope is getting it done against Trine.  At the half, Hope is up 29-22.  Big conference implications

*That is, if you don't count Calvin's own game against Trine, in which they never really competed, either.   

Trine is not competing on the boards at Hope.  Getting out rebounded 27-12 early in the second half.

[MaroonKnighty]

Holy Moly, lots of close games today.

[northb]

Calvin, once up by 16, plays no defense to speak of in the 2nd half or the overtime.  Alma walks up the court and shoots with time running out to beat Calvin 87-85

[arena]

Hell of a game Calvin.........

[GoKnights68]

Calvin, once up by 16, plays no defense to speak of in the 2nd half or the overtime.  Alma walks up the court and shoots with time running out to beat Calvin 87-85

That was really pathetic defense by Calvin on that last play. Nobody stopped the ball...