MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[almcguirejr]

There was discussion on the board about the 6:00 pm start last night to allow the women to have the prime 8:00 pm starting time.  This is being done to provide equity.  The men's game drew 4300 and the women's game 147.  Wouldn't the women have been better served by being the first game?  The women probably would have played in front of 2500-3,000 people in the second half of their game last night if it had started at 5:45.  Calvin's women's team is having an outstanding season they were ill served last night by playing late.

One other minor thing that I found odd last night was the  singing of the National Anthem.  Calvin had a group from South Christian (they were good) sing it.  I know Calvin has a lot of talented musicians and vocalists that are students.  Could they not find one to showcase their talent in front of 4,000 people last night?

[calvinite]

While I have some questions about whether or not the men's/women's schedule should be equal or if the current system is the best method in terms of striving for equality, etc., I do think it's dangerous to frame the question in terms of what 'serves' one gender better than another. This argument could, and has been used, as an argument to keep unjust systems in place in the past. This argument is especially problematic when framing the issue on just one (or just part) of the whole issue. Attendance may (or may not) be the biggest factor, but there certainly are others. For example, a 6:00 start more likely results in missing afternoon classes whereas an 8 PM start would probably result in fewer classes missed. And, has been pointed out, it's generally more difficult for fans to make a 6:00 pm start. The women might very well prefer to play at 8 pm when their [smaller] group of supporters (ie family and friends) can make the game than play part of a game in front a larger crowd (many of whom --like the entire Hope contingent) consisting of a huge number of folks who probably don't care much about their team/game anyway.

What does make sense to me (although I don't know how it would work) is that the schedule could be less of a formula and more of an 'equal' choice. That is, on times when there must be a double header, each gender gets the choice of when the game is played 50% of the time. That way, if the 6:00 pm game does serve the women better, they should have the right to choose the time rather than being 'penalized' (if that happens -- I'm not saying it is) by being forced to play at 8:00 even if they prefer to play at 6:00.

[calvin_grad]

One other minor thing that I found odd last night was the  singing of the National Anthem.  Calvin had a group from South Christian (they were good) sing it.  I know Calvin has a lot of talented musicians and vocalists that are students.  Could they not find one to showcase their talent in front of 4,000 people last night?

Sure.  But by having kids from a local high school sing, you get them on campus.  As a South parent, I know some families who have kids singing in the madrigals.  Neither the parents nor their child had never been to a basketball game, let alone Calvin/Hope.  What better way to do a little free advertising for those potential future Calvin students?

[wiz]

One other minor thing that I found odd last night was the  singing of the National Anthem.  Calvin had a group from South Christian (they were good) sing it.  I know Calvin has a lot of talented musicians and vocalists that are students.  Could they not find one to showcase their talent in front of 4,000 people last night?

Sure.  But by having kids from a local high school sing, you get them on campus.  As a South parent, I know some families who have kids singing in the madrigals.  Neither the parents nor their child had never been to a basketball game, let alone Calvin/Hope.  What better way to do a little free advertising for those potential future Calvin students?

I agree completely and the South Christian students did a very nice job.  The only problem I had with it is that the PA announcer introduced them by saying they would lead us in the national anthem.  That caused some people in my section to join in.  Unfortunately, they did not sing so well and it was very distracting.

[MaroonKnighty]

Why so few Dew Crew?

[jspiii]

There was discussion on the board about the 6:00 pm start last night to allow the women to have the prime 8:00 pm starting time.  This is being done to provide equity.  The men's game drew 4300 and the women's game 147.  Wouldn't the women have been better served by being the first game?  The women probably would have played in front of 2500-3,000 people in the second half of their game last night if it had started at 5:45.  Calvin's women's team is having an outstanding season they were ill served last night by playing late.

That is an astounding falloff. If I was the Calvin's women's team, I would be mad at the Calvin fan base, not the time. I would guess those numbers have to be way off.
A 6pm-Men/8pm-Women doubleheader at Hope had 2089 for a Hope/Alma men's game and 1749 for the Hope/Trine women's game at 8pm.

[sac]

The other men's/women's contests last night hosted by Albion drew 394 for the men, 103 for the women.


The only game where this is a major problem in this league right now is Hope/Calvin.  In the future if this happens again the two schools should do their best to move the game slated for 6pm to Tuesday or Thursday.   Other leagues see no problem playing on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Friday and the MIAA didn't at one time either.


I have yet to hear anyone say they really like the 6pm starts.

[wiz]

Brad Visser set a new personal record tonight by putting up a  3 point shot attempt in his first second of playing time.

Why do you think he waited so long?  Maybe KVS had a talk with him.

[MaroonKnighty]

I really like the 6:00 pm starts.

[wiz]

Player A
http://imgick.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/grandrapidspress/photo/2015/02/04/-892454aee1b1061f.JPG

Player B
http://imgick.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/pgmain/img/grandrapidspress/photo/2015/02/04/-55a43613c168cc93.JPG

Player C
http://imgick.mlive.com/home/mlive-media/width960/img/grandrapidspress/photo/2015/02/04/-a30b771f86c18012.JPG

Which one is MVP?

[Flying Dutch Fan]

There was discussion on the board about the 6:00 pm start last night to allow the women to have the prime 8:00 pm starting time.  This is being done to provide equity.  The men's game drew 4300 and the women's game 147.  Wouldn't the women have been better served by being the first game?  The women probably would have played in front of 2500-3,000 people in the second half of their game last night if it had started at 5:45.  Calvin's women's team is having an outstanding season they were ill served last night by playing late.

That is an astounding falloff. If I was the Calvin's women's team, I would be mad at the Calvin fan base, not the time. I would guess those numbers have to be way off.
A 6pm-Men/8pm-Women doubleheader at Hope had 2089 for a Hope/Alma men's game and 1749 for the Hope/Trine women's game at 8pm.

Heard a first hand account that there were more fans at the 8pm Hope Calvin men's JV in the old gym than there were at the women's game. IMHO - the world needs to recognize that while both men and women play a game called basketball, they are truly different games and they attract different people. I say this being someone who appreciates both games, but I also recognize they are different.

[KnightSlappy]

I have no problem with the 6PM/8PM thing the MIAA is doing. I think it's a completely defensible thing to do.

That being said, the MIAA should probably realize that the Calvin/Hope men's basketball rivalry is the premier event in their entire sports portfolio. It's not a ridiculous ask to try to schedule that game on non-doubleheader weekday nights.

[Grutte Dirk]

... the MIAA should probably realize that the Calvin/Hope men's basketball rivalry is the premier event in their entire sports portfolio.

The non-reformed MIAA schools do not, and I doubt ever will, recognize the marque nature of the Calvin/ Hope rivalry in a logistical manner. While it would be good for Calvin/ Hope and the MIAA, how would it benefit the rest of the MIAA?

If the Knights ever add football does anyone think the MIAA would allow a Calvin/ Hope season finale à la UM/OSU?

[northb]

... the MIAA should probably realize that the Calvin/Hope men's basketball rivalry is the premier event in their entire sports portfolio.

The non-reformed MIAA schools do not, and I doubt ever will, recognize the marque nature of the Calvin/ Hope rivalry in a logistical manner. While it would be good for Calvin/ Hope and the MIAA, how would it benefit the rest of the MIAA?

If the Knights ever add football does anyone think the MIAA would allow a Calvin/ Hope season finale à la UM/OSU?

Not for the first few years.....

[KzooHornet]

I value the opinions of everyone on this page so I am sincerely asking for your thoughts on this question - how do any of the other MIAA schools benefit from the league making a change in its scheduling policies just for the Hope/Calvin games?  I can think of a few things, but nothing of real substance.  I know that I am blinded a little (or more) by my history, so I am guessing there may be some reasons that my bias will not allow me to see.