MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Gregory Sager]

Seems like Hope fans are concerned about defense and lack of tendency to go inside. To me, this simply points back to the fact that their starting 1-3 on the court averages 5'11". Obviously this causes some matchup and defensive problems for them, but also allows other teams' larger guards to run their offense and score much more. I still can't understand why it is so important for Carlson to play so much (at 5'7" seems to be a defensive liability and he is at or near dead last on the entire roster in points and rebounds per 40 min)--he also pushes both Eidson and Gardner out of their natural spots on the floor, in effect downgrading three positions. In the recent Alma loss, Hope couldn't stop Nikodemski and Carlson played a team leading 38 minutes. Let's look at the evidence from the two Rivalry games, since Calvin averages 3 inches taller at those three positions and those games can provide direct evidence of the phenomenon I'm talking about:

Calvin's starting 1-3 (Parks/Brink/Daley): 50.5 ppg (32% higher than season average of 38.1 ppg)
Hope's starting 1-3 (Carlson/Gardner/Eidson): 20.5 ppg (29% lower season average of 28.8 ppg)

Last year Gardner/Eidson started at 1-2 on the floor, this year they are pushed to the 2-3 roles. Their scoring has dropped approximately 20%. I'd be interested to hear from any Hope fans that think that Hope is really stronger with Carlson-Gardner-Eidson than Gardner-Eidson (or Otto)-Stuive.

Hope has skyscrapers starting at the 1-2-3 spots when compared to North Park (NPU's Colin Lake is 5'7, Juwan Henry is 5'10, and T.J. Cobbs is 5'10. At least, that's how they're listed in the game program. Little ol' 6'0 yours truly has stood next to each of them, and I suspect that their respective statures may be a bit inflated.)

And yet nobody in the CCIW comes close to matching the collective production of that trio in terms of offense; plus, since North Park is fourth in the league in three-point FG defense, second in steals, and first in turnover margin, the team's perimeter defense is clearly not a problem. (NPU's interior defense, on the other hand ... .) While you can argue that the heavy minutes that Lake, Henry, and Cobbs play have a lot to do with their big offensive numbers, the flip side of such an assertion is that production is supposed to go down when you're forced to play multiple players excessive minutes. At least, that's the conventional wisdom.

All of which is a roundabout way of saying that measurements aren't the be-all and end-all of how to gauge perimeter players. Yeah, there's certain disadvantages to having lots of short players on the perimeter -- opponents can take them down low and post them up (especially if you're a switching defense); passing angles are reduced on offense; rebounding becomes more difficult, etc. -- but heights are not a generic indicator of ability level. Just ask Illinois Wesleyan; last Saturday the Titans used a lineup of 6'8, 6'6, 6'3, 6'1, and 6'3, with 6'8, 6'6, 6'0, 6'2, and 6'0 coming off of the bench ... and the game's high rebounder was NPU's 5'10 Cobbs with nine, three rebounds more than any Titan got.

Don't put too much stock in height when you're assessing Hope's perimeter players, or anybody's perimeter players, for that matter. It isn't everything. A lot more goes into the makeup of a basketball player than just his stature.

[HollandKnight]

The second go around of Calvin vs. Hope, at Calvin, the Hope students began chanting,"We Want Daley". At first I was puzzled, by then they were 5 minutes into the game and he had something around 7 points. Then I realized, they wanted a transfer, being that he would be a good fit, being more of a true 3 than Eidson.  That's the only other reason I could ponder. Anyone have insight on the situation?

[Young Knight 14]

Last year Daley played horrible at Hope missing shots and turning the ball over constantly.  The chat started there.  You would also notice that the chant did not happen in the second half after Jordan had played an excellent first.

[sac]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

[HollandKnight]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

The reason for his atrocious 9 turnovers last year, was because last year he was the starting point guard, not small forward. Also, no disrespect but Carlson isn't starting material. Mitchell would be much better suited to start either Stuive or Otto, who I believe who could do special things with the right minutes.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

The reason for his atrocious 9 turnovers last year, was because last year he was the starting point guard, not small forward. Also, no disrespect but Carlson isn't starting material. Mitchell would be much better suited to start either Stuive or Otto, who I believe who could do special things with the right minutes.

Hmm - not starting material?  I certainly do not agree.  50 games into his career, Chad has the following stats (keep in mind that his roll is not to be a scorer, rather a true pass first, pass second kind of point guard).

50 games
920 min
161 pts (3.2 per game)
53 reb (1.1 per game)
81 ast (1.6 per game)
20 TO (0.4 per game) - his high game for TO is 2
4.05 A/TO
1 TO every 46 min of playing time - I compared this every other Hope point guard in history (Krombeen, Immink, Duistermars, Holstege, Elliot....)  They all averaged a TO every 8-15 minutes. In fact if you look at all Hope players who have more than 800 minutes played, the next closest is Logan Neil at 1 TO every 29 Min.

He does exactly what he is asked to do - be the primary ball handler, take care of the ball, make the rest of the team better.  I also think that Chad is a better than average defender.

[HollandKnight]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

The reason for his atrocious 9 turnovers last year, was because last year he was the starting point guard, not small forward. Also, no disrespect but Carlson isn't starting material. Mitchell would be much better suited to start either Stuive or Otto, who I believe who could do special things with the right minutes.

Hmm - not starting material?  I certainly do not agree.  50 games into his career, Chad has the following stats (keep in mind that his roll is not to be a scorer, rather a true pass first, pass second kind of point guard).

50 games
920 min
161 pts (3.2 per game)
53 reb (1.1 per game)
81 ast (1.6 per game)
20 TO (0.4 per game) - his high game for TO is 2
4.05 A/TO
1 TO every 46 min of playing time - I compared this every other Hope point guard in history (Krombeen, Immink, Duistermars, Holstege, Elliot....)  They all averaged a TO every 8-15 minutes. In fact if you look at all Hope players who have more than 800 minutes played, the next closest is Logan Neil at 1 TO every 29 Min.

He does exactly what he is asked to do - be the primary ball handler, take care of the ball, make the rest of the team better.  I also think that Chad is a better than average defender.

If he was truly a pass first, pass second point guard he would have more than 2 assists per game, regardless of how many times he turns the ball over. Judging from experience, playing Ben Gardner at point will stretch your defense. Proven by his freshman year were he nearly forced Coach Vandestreet to put a hole in the floor with the amount of frustration he caused the Knights defense.

[MaroonKnighty]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

The reason for his atrocious 9 turnovers last year, was because last year he was the starting point guard, not small forward. Also, no disrespect but Carlson isn't starting material. Mitchell would be much better suited to start either Stuive or Otto, who I believe who could do special things with the right minutes.

Hmm - not starting material?  I certainly do not agree.  50 games into his career, Chad has the following stats (keep in mind that his roll is not to be a scorer, rather a true pass first, pass second kind of point guard).

50 games
920 min
161 pts (3.2 per game)
53 reb (1.1 per game)
81 ast (1.6 per game)
20 TO (0.4 per game) - his high game for TO is 2
4.05 A/TO
1 TO every 46 min of playing time - I compared this every other Hope point guard in history (Krombeen, Immink, Duistermars, Holstege, Elliot....)  They all averaged a TO every 8-15 minutes. In fact if you look at all Hope players who have more than 800 minutes played, the next closest is Logan Neil at 1 TO every 29 Min.

He does exactly what he is asked to do - be the primary ball handler, take care of the ball, make the rest of the team better.  I also think that Chad is a better than average defender.

I agree with FDF.  I really like Mitchell, let him keep doing what he's doing.

[Young Knight 14]

Calvin women going for a regular season sweep of Hope tonight.  I can only guess as to how long its been since Calvin has gone 4-0 against Hope in the regular season.

[HollandKnight]

Daley played very little against Hope as a Freshmen, last year as a Sophomore in the first two games he scored 8 points and had 9 turnovers, and was visibly benched by KVS in the second game. 


He's been very good since the MIAA Tournament game last year.........something the Dew Crew can't say.

The reason for his atrocious 9 turnovers last year, was because last year he was the starting point guard, not small forward. Also, no disrespect but Carlson isn't starting material. Mitchell would be much better suited to start either Stuive or Otto, who I believe who could do special things with the right minutes.

Hmm - not starting material?  I certainly do not agree.  50 games into his career, Chad has the following stats (keep in mind that his roll is not to be a scorer, rather a true pass first, pass second kind of point guard).

50 games
920 min
161 pts (3.2 per game)
53 reb (1.1 per game)
81 ast (1.6 per game)
20 TO (0.4 per game) - his high game for TO is 2
4.05 A/TO
1 TO every 46 min of playing time - I compared this every other Hope point guard in history (Krombeen, Immink, Duistermars, Holstege, Elliot....)  They all averaged a TO every 8-15 minutes. In fact if you look at all Hope players who have more than 800 minutes played, the next closest is Logan Neil at 1 TO every 29 Min.

He does exactly what he is asked to do - be the primary ball handler, take care of the ball, make the rest of the team better.  I also think that Chad is a better than average defender.

I agree with FDF.  I really like Mitchell, let him keep doing what he's doing.

I respect Greg Mitchell and what he has done to the program. Not many coaches, in there first year, do as well as he has done.
I never said directly he isn't doing his job in the wrong way. What I was simply saying was that the 1-2-3 rotation of Gardner, Eidson and Stuive was a tough one to stop last year.

[sac]

Trine 45  Albion 44

Our great MIAA officiating was on full display in the final 8 seconds as Trine is allowed to hold the ball while two Albion players hack away and the officials refuse to make a call.  Disgraceful.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Bizarre ending to the Trine @ Albion game.  Trine was up one (45-44, eight seconds to go) and inbounded the ball.  Albion blatantly, flagrantly fouled to stop the clock, finally even throwing a Trine player to the floor - the refs refused to call a foul and the clock ran out.  Never seen anything quite like that!

(I see sac beat me to the post, but didn't mention that Albion even went so far as throwing the Trine player onto the floor.)

We DO play it rougher in the 'midwest' than in many parts of the country, but I've never seen refs allow quite THAT much!

[sac]

Starting 5 watchers will note Hope started Corey McMahon and he promptly went 4-5 from 3 in the first 9 minutes.  Alex Eidson has an injury.

[KnightSlappy]

All's well that ends well. Calvin built a 25 pt lead early in the second half only to allow Olivet come roaring back to cut the lead to 5 with just over 7 minutes to play. The Knights hang on to win by 13, but that one could have/should have been a wider margin. Olivet made 5 threes in a 6 possession stretch to really cut into the Calvin lead quickly. The Comets like to bomb threes, and they hung in tonight while they were going in.

The win gives the Knights the outright MIAA Championship.

[MaroonKnighty]

Is there no video of the hope Kalamazoo game?  I can't find it on miaa.org or hope.edu.