MBB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Started by sac, February 19, 2005, 11:51:56 AM

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sac

Really nice numbers but on only 8.6 shots per game.  He's a player being asked to pick his spots, rather than shoulder a bigger load like some of the other guys we've mentioned using eFG%.

We'll never know because Alma has a decent balance among its best players, but it would be interesting to see what would happen to that eFG% if he was asked to shoot it more per game.  In the  12-15 FG attempts range. :-\

KnightSlappy

#41551
Quote from: sac on August 24, 2015, 07:34:08 PM
Really nice numbers but on only 8.6 shots per game.  He's a player being asked to pick his spots, rather than shoulder a bigger load like some of the other guys we've mentioned using eFG%.

We'll never know because Alma has a decent balance among its best players, but it would be interesting to see what would happen to that eFG% if he was asked to shoot it more per game.  In the  12-15 FG attempts range. :-\

Nikodemski would need only a 33.6 eFG% in the extra 5.7 attempts per game to match Dixon's conference season line of 14.3 attempts and 50.1 eFG%.

As a point of reference, Micah Chappell put up a 35.4 eFG% in his 147 career attempts.

sac

Quote from: KnightSlappy on August 25, 2015, 05:55:49 PM
Quote from: sac on August 24, 2015, 07:34:08 PM
Really nice numbers but on only 8.6 shots per game.  He's a player being asked to pick his spots, rather than shoulder a bigger load like some of the other guys we've mentioned using eFG%.

We'll never know because Alma has a decent balance among its best players, but it would be interesting to see what would happen to that eFG% if he was asked to shoot it more per game.  In the  12-15 FG attempts range. :-\

Nikodemski would need only a 33.6 eFG% in the extra 5.7 attempts per game to match Dixon's conference season line of 14.3 attempts and 50.1 eFG%.

As a point of reference, Micah Chappell put up a 35.4 eFG% in his 147 career attempts.

I do think the nearly 5 minutes more per game Dixon plays would make a difference if Nikodemski were asked to carry that much of a load.  Nikodemski played 35+ minutes only 5 times last year, Dixon 18 times.   Dixon's last 7 MIAA reg. seasons games was an eFG% of 34.4%, I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to tired legs compared to Nikodemski.  By that point in the season Dixon's played nearly 3 more full game minutes in the same stretch of time.   (also a fair point possibly better defensive attention 2nd time through the league.)  Up to those last seven games his eFG% was 55.9% with a higher work load.



Although Nikodemski, Dixon et al are all guards, they simply weren't being used the same way in their respective games and eFG% isn't a stat that's going to be very good at comparing those players.  Its not a like to like comparison in many way.  I specifically lumped Cramer, Brink, Dixon, Raymond and Jurickovic together because I think they are similar players being asked to play similar games with similar work loads.  Nikodemski is a terrific player, but he's a different player being asked to do different things at a different rate than those other guys.   

Brock Benson's eFG% is 64% but I certainly wouldn't say he had a better year than Brink.  They weren't asked to do the same things at all.



Anyway, you'd probably like this page with a new metric, just to confuse things.  :)
https://escobarmag.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/why-true-shooting-percentage-and-effective-field-goal-percentage-are-wrong-and-why-our-metric-is-right/

Its a lot of math for basically the same answers. :-\

KnightSlappy

Quote from: sac on August 26, 2015, 12:46:42 AM
Anyway, you'd probably like this page with a new metric, just to confuse things.  :)
https://escobarmag.wordpress.com/2013/03/05/why-true-shooting-percentage-and-effective-field-goal-percentage-are-wrong-and-why-our-metric-is-right/

Its a lot of math for basically the same answers. :-\

Yeah, I like to use Points Per Weighted Shot more than eFG% to gauge a player's scoring ability. (As your link points out, FTA multipliers are not ideal, but I think PPWS is intuitive and close enough for now.)

http://www.ebawords.com/tiki-print.php?page=PPWS

Andy Draayer (.611) had a better eFG% than Jordan Brink (.583) for their respective careers, but it's Brink (1.27 PPWS) who's been the single most efficient Calvin scorer of the last 18 years due to his added ability to get to the line (and make the shots). PPWS reflects this as Draayer comes up just short at 1.26.

Again, different players, so still not apples-to-apples, but it's a better measure of scoring efficiency.

KnightSlappy

Quote from: sac on August 26, 2015, 12:46:42 AM
I do think the nearly 5 minutes more per game Dixon plays would make a difference if Nikodemski were asked to carry that much of a load.  Nikodemski played 35+ minutes only 5 times last year, Dixon 18 times.   Dixon's last 7 MIAA reg. seasons games was an eFG% of 34.4%, I'm sure a lot of that can be attributed to tired legs compared to Nikodemski.  By that point in the season Dixon's played nearly 3 more full game minutes in the same stretch of time.   (also a fair point possibly better defensive attention 2nd time through the league.)  Up to those last seven games his eFG% was 55.9% with a higher work load.

Although Nikodemski, Dixon et al are all guards, they simply weren't being used the same way in their respective games and eFG% isn't a stat that's going to be very good at comparing those players.  Its not a like to like comparison in many way.  I specifically lumped Cramer, Brink, Dixon, Raymond and Jurickovic together because I think they are similar players being asked to play similar games with similar work loads.  Nikodemski is a terrific player, but he's a different player being asked to do different things at a different rate than those other guys.   

I think there's still a valid question of how much Dixon helped Trine offensively last year. There's some value in the scoring quantity he provided (like there's value in Nikodemski's efficiency), but we (or I, at least) don't have a good feel for where the breakeven point is between quality and quantity. This is where a "replacement level" scoring efficiency would come in handy.

I have a similar feeling toward Dixon as I do to Connor VanderBrug. Good players, talented scorers, shot too much for their own good. Here are some numbers (MIAA season only).

Calvin average 1.12 PPWS
Trine average 1.09 PPWS
MIAA average 1.06 PPWS
Will Dixon 1.01 PPWS
Connor Vanderbrug 1.00 PPWS

Aside: The answer to the "why isn't VanderBrug starting?" outrage might have something to do with:

Welch: 1.25 PPWS
Dykstra: 1.21 PPWS
Denney: 1.08 PPWS
Stout: 1.05 PPWS
VanderBrug: 1.00 PPWS

oldknight

Thanks to KnightSlappy for crunching the numbers. You're right, there is a point where quantity surpasses quality. Dykstra, Stout and Welch may have better PPWS than VanderBrug but if you're not shooting a lot the number gets skewed. VanderBrug played some important ball for the Knights last season when they needed him. In particular, Calvin's wins over Carthage and Oswego State stand out for me. CVB shot a lot those two games (9-15 and 7-13) but let's face it, Connor had a major impact in both wins. With one year under his belt, I do expect is PPWS will rise too.



KnightSlappy

Quote from: oldknight on August 28, 2015, 08:36:20 PM
Thanks to KnightSlappy for crunching the numbers. You're right, there is a point where quantity surpasses quality. Dykstra, Stout and Welch may have better PPWS than VanderBrug but if you're not shooting a lot the number gets skewed. VanderBrug played some important ball for the Knights last season when they needed him. In particular, Calvin's wins over Carthage and Oswego State stand out for me. CVB shot a lot those two games (9-15 and 7-13) but let's face it, Connor had a major impact in both wins. With one year under his belt, I do expect is PPWS will rise too.

The thing that stands out to me about about VanderBrug last year was that it was his two-point shooting that brought down his efficiency metrics. A little bit more touch from close range and a tone-down of his tendency to shoot the mid-range would boost these numbers significantly.

I am all about him shooting threes when he gets the open look.

I have no doubts Connor will be a terrific player these next three years, he just has (had) some things to learn.


Gregory Sager

#41559
Albion's football team has won its first two games this season by scores of 65-52 and 60-49 (oddly enough, against the two schools that were in last year's D3 basketball title game, UWSP and Augustana, respectively). Given the defense-first, hold-the-score-down mentality that has been a byword of Britons basketball under first Mike Turner and now Jody May, I can't think of another school in America that has a more stark contrast between the ethos of its football team and the ethos of its basketball team than Albion.
"To see what is in front of one's nose is a constant struggle." -- George Orwell

KnightSlappy

Quote from: Gregory Sager on September 12, 2015, 06:39:26 PM
Albion's football team has won its first two games this season by scores of 65-52 and 60-49 (oddly enough, against the two schools that were in last year's D3 basketball title game, UWSP and Augustana, respectively). Given the defense-first, hold-the-score-down mentality that has been a byword of Britons basketball under first Mike Turner and now Jody May, I can't think of another school in America that has a more stark contrast between the ethos of its football team and the ethos of its basketball team than Albion.

I don't follow MIAA football -- not sure it actually exists, quite frankly -- but I'm glad to hear the Albion student-athlets conduct themselves with such a high level of grace and class on the football playing surface.  :-X


northb

Quote from: MaroonKnighty on September 21, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
Going to have some Hudsonville Ice Cream tonight.
http://calvinknights.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/releases/20150921ccwrqc

My daughter said. "He was the voice of Calvin Basketball to me."  I responded, "He was the voice of Calvin Basketball to everybody."
Swisharoo for two...   
DIII 2021 Basketball National Tournament Pick-em Co-Champ

I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened.

--Mark Twain

oldknight

Quote from: northb on September 21, 2015, 02:04:37 PM
Quote from: MaroonKnighty on September 21, 2015, 08:43:34 AM
Going to have some Hudsonville Ice Cream tonight.
http://calvinknights.com/sports/mbkb/2015-16/releases/20150921ccwrqc

My daughter said. "He was the voice of Calvin Basketball to me."  I responded, "He was the voice of Calvin Basketball to everybody."
Swisharoo for two...

I think I'm one of the few board posters who remembers Al Ackerman, the predecessor voice of Calvin basketball. Since my doctor recently suggested that I lay off the heavy cream, I think I'll simply place one bale of hay into the barn tonight. RIP Doug.

calvinite

Heard disturbing news from the Knollcrest campus today that one of Calvin's prominent players from last year is not returning. I'm not sure this is set in stone, but the source is reliable. So, at the very least, one of Calvin's players is considering not returning :-[. Ouch. Not happy about this.
Knights!

"I speak to everyone in the same way, whether he is the garbage man or the president of the university."
― Albert Einstein